Toyota Extends Warranty On Tundra Frames
Jason | May 06, 2010 | Comments 208
According to a letter sent out to Toyota dealers, Toyota has extended the warranty on 2000-2003 Tundra frames, which allows dealers to replace rusted frames on 2000-20003 Toyota Tundras at no charge to the consumer. This is excellent news for any Toyota Tundra owners dealing with frame rust issues as well as a strong symbol of Toyota’s commitment to quality and customer service. While this move didn’t happen as quickly as we would have liked, we strongly applaud this action.
Here are the specifics of the free frame replacement program:
- All 2000-2003 Tundras are eligible for frame replacement, regardless of their geographic location.
- The frame will only be replaced if perforation due to rust can be found, and only if that perforation is larger than 10mm in diameter. For reference, a marble is about 10mm across.
- Frames with perforation will be replaced free of charge, and a rental vehicle will be provided while the frame is being replaced.
- There is no mileage limitation, but the vehicle must be in otherwise good condition to qualify for a free frame replacement. Trucks with severe body damage, non-functional powertrains, and salvage vehicles are not eligible for this program.
- This program is available until April, 2012.
This Program Is In Addition To Last Year’s Frame Rust Recall
In response to a NHTSA investigation, Toyota announced a recall to replace rusting rear cross-members on 2000-2003 Tundra frames in November of 2009. NHTSA’s investigation found that 00′-03′ Tundra spare tires – which are mounted to the rear cross-member – were falling off due to frame rust. This investigation forced Toyota to recall all 00-03′ Tundras in 20 cold weather states to check the rear cross-member for rust.
Unfortunately, many of the recalled trucks had severely rusted frame components that were NOT covered under recall. Toyota said that recalled trucks with more extensive rust would be evaluated on a “case-by-case” basis which – according to many Tundra owners – was problematic. Months long delays and inconsistent offers (some owners were offered buy-backs, some were offered new frames, and some where told nothing would happen) created a lot of anger and confusion.
The recall notice sent out last year covered the frame sections in red. This month's new service campaign covers all the frame sections in green.
The new program is intended to answer the frame rust issue once and for all. If your 2000-2003 Tundra has a frame that has been damaged by rust (NOTE: Surface rust is NOT damage – we’re talking about perforation here), you get a new frame. The letter indicates that most frames will be replaced in less than 30 days, with frame ordering times of 1-2 weeks and the actual repair taking 4 or 5 days. Tundras with accessories may have trouble with this warranty is those accessories are frame-mounted.
If you own a 2000-2003 Tundra, we suggest you bring it to your local Toyota dealership for a free inspection ASAP.
Is Toyota Changing For The Better?
When stories of Tundra frame rust first began to appear in the news in April of 2009, Toyota’s response was cryptic. While Toyota seemed to indicate Tundras had this issue, they did not seem overly concerned about resolving the problem quickly. When we published Tundra frame rust photos in August of 2009, the issue seemed to be gaining momentum with our readers and on other Tundra websites. NHTSA began investigating Tundra frame rust complaints in October, 2009, and in just a few weeks NHTSA found evidence of a problem. Toyota, in an effort to keep this issue and quiet, announced a “voluntary” frame rust recall just before the Thanksgiving holiday last year (November 09′).
Unfortunately, as was outlined above, the “voluntary” recall didn’t do enough to solve the problem. Finally, 6 months after the frame rust recall, Toyota launched the limited service campaign we’re discussing today.
While the apparent lack of urgency in resolving this issue is disappointing, Toyota’s decision to replace these rusted frames indicates their commitment to Tundra buyers. What’s more, Toyota will begin notifying 2000-2003 Tundra owners of this program this month. The notification letter states:
Toyota has received isolated reports regarding certain 2000 through 2003 model year Tundra vehicles exhibiting excessive rust corrosion to the frame causing perforation of the metal. Toyota has investigated these reports and determined that the vehicle frames in some number of vehicles may not have adequate corrosion-resistant protection. This combined with prolonged exposure to road salts and other environmental factors may contribute to the development of excessive rust corrosion in the frames of some vehicles. This is unrelated to and seperate from normal surface rust which is commonly found on metallic surfaces after some years of usage and/or exposure to the environment.
Although the vehicle’s frame is covered by Toyota’s New Vehicle Limited Warranty for 3 years or 36,000 miles (whichever comes first), we at Toyota care about your overall experience and confidence in your vehicle. To assure you that we stand behind our product, we are providing an enhancement to the warranty coverage on your vehicle’s frame for this specific condition for a limited time (repairs must be completed by April 30, 2012).
The letter seems to indicate a change in Toyota’s posture on this issue – perhaps it’s a result of pressure from NHTSA, but we’d like to think that Toyota’s new PR team has helped Toyota execs recognize the negative impact rusting frames has on sales of new Tundras. By stepping up and replacing frames, Toyota has fixed a mistake. Considering the cost of this free frame replacement – in excess of $10,000 per vehicle – Toyota has put their money where their mouth is.
While we’re sure there are Tundra owners who will not be satisfied by Toyota’s frame replacement offer, it would seem that this issue is finally resolved. New Toyota Tundra sales might see a boost as well.
Comments?
Popularity: 5%
Filed Under: Tundra News
Cue trolls.
MINE IS T THE DEALER SHIP SINCE 03/10 WAS TOLD NEW FRAME ON THE WAY.
2000 TUNDRA EXT CAB
Sounds great for the folks that have been fighting this issue. I suppose it helped the cause with all of the media attention and the govt investigation. Hope the same results take place for the pump issue.
mine is at my dealership now. driving a new tahoe as a rental. seems to be a big expence when they could just buy it back for alot less!
but I bet chevy or ford would never consider this on a 130K mile vehicle….
I love these comments. Your absolutely right Chris, Ford and Chevy would never attempt to replace the frame of their truck. Why would you want to when there is nothing wrong with it? That’s somthing I don’t think I would brag about. Getting a new spine (frame) at 130k, that’s on with”things I don’t want to deal with” list when buying a truck.
OK, I was told on Tuesday by the dealership. Parts are on order. Does anyone have any info on exactly how they do this? Or any experience of issues after it is done, I think some have been done at owner’s expense? I’ve got 100 + on mine and just concerns of what is in store down the road.
Thanks!!
Can’t wait in another 6-8 years from now when our 2007-2010 tundra’s frames have holes in them? Who is to say someone would not punch a couple holes with a punch/hammer into the frame where it is rusted pretty bad and say hey, Toyota, replace my frame at your 10K expense? I could see it happening very easily if the 200-2003 tundras’ frames are rusted out pretty bad.
Jeremy – I welcome them. Toyota might have screwed up with this problem in the first place, but now that they’re going to replace frames for free, what can they say?
Greg McDaniel – My guess is that Toyota arranged for a steady supply of frames before announcing this program. Your wait is probably going to end very soon…but you might want to make sure your dealer is aware of this program. Evidently, some of the part numbers have been combined into a “kit” that your parts manager might not know about.
Rich – I hear that. I think there’s a chance Toyota will do something on the air pumps, but my guess is that they don’t do a lot. Frankly, if they just figured out how to discount the stupid air pumps and/or replace them with a lower-cost alternative, that would go a long ways. A software update that removed the hard fault would work too.
Chris – That’s true – buy-backs would be cheaper. Unfortunately, when you start handing out checks, everyone’s truck has rust. This is the cheapest way to go when you factor in fraud.
greg – So true. We know that Ford would never replace an engine either, despite design problems with ejecting spark plugs. Show me an instance where Ford, GM, or Dodge stepped up with thousands of dollars in repairs on a design mistake at ANY POINT in the history of those companies. The repair has to be at least 3 years outside of warranty, and it has to cost more than the value of the vehicle. Toyota might have made a mistake when they rust-proofed their frames, but they’re good enough to own up to it. I don’t know that we could say the same of any other company (and neither do you).
RC – It’s as complicated as it sounds. Fortunately, Toyota isn’t trying to force dealers to rush the work. They’re offering 40 hours of labor, and they’re opening up the work to body shops with experience in this sort of thing.
mk – I’m sure it will. Of course, if the steel frame brakes because of a hole punch, it was probably weakened already, right!
Oh, no….I wasn’t bemoaning them. It was more of a skeet shot type call.
“Cue Trolls”
shiSHICK CLICK
“PULL”
BAM!
“Cue next troll”
And people say I am violent. I don’t see it.
Jeremy – Got it – cue em’ up!
I’m sorry, but Toyota isn’t replacing frames out of the kindness of their heart. Their hand was forced and are now doing this to try and shed good light on themselves. Toyota knew (as we all did) there was more wrong with these frames than just the rear cross members when they announced the recall back in 11/09.
****
Now I wouldn’t want a truck that has been torn down to its bones and built back up. The truck is never the same from that point on. Anyone who has this completed, make sure you get a warranty for all work, such as body panel alignment, bed to cab alignment, motor mounts, etc. These items will never be as good as before when it came from the factory.
****
Jason: Why replace the entire engine with a stuck or launching plug? A simple head replacement cures the problem (roughly $1K-$2K) and is not nearly as dangerous as a rotting frame.
****
Oh, so Toyota not owning up to the pedal/floormat problem initially until the NHTSA forced their hand is considered owning up? Clearly this new service campaign is a PR ploy to try and show customers good faith after letting them down. Otherwise they would have announced this service campaign back in 11/09 along with the recall. Not trying to be a troll, but I’m not buying the “Toyota is doing this because they care” philosophy. They are doing it for good PR and to keep the NHTSA off their back.
And to Dave, who posted in the closed thread on 5/5 that his truck is being worked on and would hopefully have back 5/6 or 5/7. Don’t bet on it, and don’t accept it if it is. A complete tear down and rebuild you do not want to rush one bit. Give them time, roughly 1.5 weeks minimum. They aren’t the factory assembly line. Otherwise I’m sure you’ll be back for warranty work because panels aren’t aligned properly or some other items weren’t throroughly completed or inspected prior to your pickup.
Jeremy, ready, pull! Ford is not the only vehicle that has had spark plugs blown out of the head. Toyota and others are known for it also. Why does everyone always reference that. It is caused by improper maintence when they replace the plugs, like taking them out of a hot head. Rust is nothing new to Toyota. Remeber the late 80’s and 90’s pickups. So Toyota is good enough to live up to their mistakes. Then why are they being fined and had to stand infront of Congress? Could this be a knee jerk because of recent issues. Maybe trying to save face? Oh Yhea I bet the NHTSA had nothing to do with them replacing them. So what’s the bet the second Gen will have this issue? I didn’t know something so simple as a rust inhibitor was so hard to apply. If Toyota is that great what’s going on with the $4000 air injector problem, isn’t it because of corrosion? How about the spare tires on the Sennia, cables are breaking due to rust. Chrome bumpers, lug nuts corroding on new Tundra’s. See a trend yet?
I really don’t care why they’re doing it…they’re doing it! That’s the point. You just can’t please some people that love to b*tch and moan.
Yep, I agree. Toyota owners are never happy. Spending more on the repair than the vehicle is worth, is this spose to be a good thing? So since the domestics have not done this before everyone thinks it a bad thing. No means they have never had issues like this. So is the title gonna be a S title for savages since it has a new frame?
mine is getting done as of next week, for thouse of you that still have to ask, ask for the limited service campaign A0F to be preformed.
[...] Tundra frame rust recall??? More detailed information on the Limited Service Campaign: Toyota Launches Tundra Frame Replacement Program | Tundra Headquarters This article confirms the campaign is valid on 2000-2003 Tundras, through the year 2012 – so if [...]
i was at my toyota dealer a week ago and they had an old red taco in their fully ripped apart for frame repalcement. i checked it out and said, WoW! they do replace other things comlimentary. mainly suspension parts etc. but i see they get penny wise , dollar foolish on things like clips and stuff.
[...] cold-weather states, according to a letter sent to Toyota dealers (and obtained by our friends at TundraHeadquarters.com). The so-called "limited service campaign" is a retroactive enhancement to the vehicle's [...]
Justin – My point with the F150 spark plug issue is that a design mistake/flaw/error led to thousands of dollars in repairs, and Ford did nothing. Most of the time, that’s what manufacturers do. This situation is the exception, not the rule.
##
Also, Toyota probably wasn’t forced to extend the warranty on Tundra frames. They could have simply continued to evaluate 00-03 Tundras on a case-by-case basis just as they described in the NHTSA letter last year. This is definitely above and beyond the scope of the mandated recall. Whether or not it was a result of government pressure I don’t know. It’s possible, but I think NHTSA would be taking credit right now if they had forced Toyota to act.
##
I disagree with the premise that a truck with a new frame is guaranteed to be inferior to a truck with the stock frame. I’m sure that SOME of the trucks that get new frames will not have all the parts attached the right way, but let’s not kid ourselves: the same can be said for NEW trucks. At the end of the day, fixes, repairs, and assembly are all performed by human beings. Quality depends more on the person doing the work than anything else.
##
Finally, your point about Toyota’s motives is well taken. For the record, I don’t *know* for sure why this was done. However, as someone who has followed Toyota closely for a few years now, this is definitely not business as usual. Based on some of the other things I’m seeing, it’s my opinion Toyota has stopped taking consumer goodwill for granted.
greg – Spark plugs that stick can sometimes be a maintenance issue, but in the case of Ford’s late 90’s and early 00’s V8 truck engines, it was a design flaw. I know of a LOT of people first hand who paid thousands of dollars for new heads on an otherwise perfectly good vehicle. Ford issued a TSB on this problem, all but acknowledging they made a mistake. It’s a common example that I cite because it effected thousands of truck owners and it pissed off a lot of people (again, I know this first hand because I worked for years at a Ford dealership).
##
As for your point about Toyota being forced to warranty frames by NHTSA, my only thought is that Ray LaHood would be bragging about how tough he was if that had actually happened.
##
Your points about Toyota dragging their feet are well taken too. In fact, that’s why I’m wondering if this action isn’t an example of a change at Toyota. The “old” Toyota would have just ignored complaints, whereas the “new” Toyota is warranting 400k+ trucks. I suppose the Tacoma frame rust recall was conducted by the “old” Toyota, but the number of vehicles impacted was MUCH larger.
##
You and TXTee are both right – no decision results in 100% of the people being happy. However, if a person owns a 2000-2003 Tundra with frame rust, I’m going to venture a guess and say that they’re happier now than they were a few days ago.
##
TXTee – I agree. I fail to see how anyone can construe this as anything but a positive. Warranty is ALWAYS better than no warranty.
##
Rick – I hear what you’re saying about making people pay for clips, etc., but they’ve got to draw a line somewhere.
Does anyone know how many reports there were? I would think this would only happen if you got salt water on it or something.
Jason, why do you need to buy new heads? Usually who ever replaces the plugs did not follow the procedures and weakened or stripped out the threads. All they need is a insert installed. So did you recommend a new head to everyone when you worked for the dealership.
No, Greg. but he probably did recommend orange juice and mineral oil to every customer who showed up acting like you are now.
Some people are never happy, others are only happy when everyone else isn’t. Both groups are on my Soylent Green list.
greg – The thread kits didn’t/don’t always work, they’re really not what I would call “cheap” to install, and they weren’t officially recommended by Ford (at least not when the problem first started happening). Besides Greg, if you ever had worked in a shop before, you would know that telling every customer to buy a new head without explaining all the options is a good way to fade a lot of heat!
##
If anyone wants to read some customer comments on Ford’s cylinder head design flaw, check this out: http://www.consumeraffairs.com.....spark.html
##
jeremy – I had to look up the consequences of orange juice and mineral oil – funny!
Well if you chevy people think that the chevy’s don’t have rust issue’s then you are living in Chevy land!!! I have 2 friends personally who have Chevy Trucks rusted as bad or worse than mine. One is newer and one 1 yr older! You can beter believe they will only send you a sorry note and an invitation to come buy another truck that every American has to pay for with our tax dollars thru their Bailout!!!! Hope you Continue to live Bliss and believe all their lies!
Just think of all the money that toyota is keeping in the country by doing this! there isnt a single bit of money going back to japan, with the exception of incidentals that are destroyed during the process. Minimal at best… it all goes to the local dealerships to pay their techs and service advisors and the truck drivers to ship the frames and the frame manufacturer. i would say this is a win win situation in a down economy. thanks Toyota. Still loving that Tahoe you are paying for me to drive, makes me want to buy one..
Sounds great, what a warranty program. Do we qualify for the recall up here in Canada?
John
I don’t want to look a gift horse in the mouth but I too am concerned about what this may end up costing me in the long run. I will be anxiously waiting for someone to post when they get their truck back with a new frame. Mine is a 2000 and I’m sure there will be other parts under there that could use replacing. Especially when they try and re-align it. The truck drives great, doesn’t pull, and the tires wear good, but its been my experience when replacing suspension and steering parts it sometimes brings out other problems.
Jeremy, I’m glad you found a way to deal with pill Toyota was handing out. I know it was a hard pill to swallow but now others know how to pass it. Only a Toyota owner would know the quick fix for colon problems. Over the counter remedies get expensive when you had to spend $4000 on air injectors and corners have to be cut.
-
Why does everyone always dewell in the past? It happened, its been fixed. It would be like bring up Supra head gaskets, T100 head gaskets known to leak at only 60k, Tundra/Sequoia exhaust manifod cracks. Ford have fixed the heads, its equivalent to Toyota’s air injectors.
-
Jason, I understand not telling the customer everything. That’s why service advisors rank up there with theives. If they tell you the sky is blue, better go check. Now it all makes sense why you have heartache with Ford, they had to protect their interests that why they let you go. Inserts don’t work? Read the tsb, also if it happen while under warrenty Ford replaced the heads. Its all in the tsb.
-
Steve wash your truck. Invite your friends show them how, turn it into a party! If you live in the salt belt you should know about salt and the effects. As for Chevy there seems to be some Toyota owners relying on Chevy to take care of them while their vehicles are being repaired.
-
Chris who is really paying for this? Toyota or Dyna
Toyota now has another issue on their hands. This is a few days old, but thought I’d post anyways.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/201.....ing_recall
Chris – Awesome observation! I didn’t think of it, but you’re absolutely right – the frames and the labor benefit the American people.
John – I believe so.
Fed up – I hear you, but like a lot of mechanical repairs, there’s never a problem when it’s done correctly.
Greg – I’m sorry, but I don’t remember it the way you do. I didn’t work in the drive, however – I only faded the heat from upset customers who didn’t want to pay for the repair. Maybe I imagined all those pissed off F150 owners…
I remember it the way the TSB reads to this date. Since you dont remember it that way could you explain what work you actually did then, what do you mean by faded the head from pissed off customers. Would you like to share what you actually did? Where you the detailing guy, bay sweeper, parts guy, parts runner, cashier, paint and body, salesman, or janitor?
-
So are they going to decode the title to salvaged since they where unsafe to drive and the repair exceeded that value of the vehicle.
greg – I was a sales manager. When the service manager was gone or otherwise occupied, I was the next one up the chain. I must confess I don’t remember the full details of the issue and how it unfolded, but I distinctly remember dozens of very pissed off people who swore they would never buy another Ford again because of this specific problem (although I’m sure a lot of those people were just mad). I remember going through all the options with a few people as they were explained to me by the service writer and/or tech.
##
Additionally, I’m almost certain that Ford didn’t acknowledge this problem for quite a while before they issued the TSB you’re referencing. Am I wrong about that?
##
As for your question about salvaged title, the answer is no. However, in some states, the fact the vehicle has had a frame replacement must be disclosed at the time of sale (if sold by a dealership). On a vehicle this old, it’s probably not a big deal, but some consumers might object.
I also have a deal with my Service Manager to call me when they get my truck up in the air for the “inventory” , when they decide which “frame kit” to order for me (apparently there are different kits depending on the amount of destruction/ anticipated replacement”). At this point we are going to go over the items that are not included in the frame replacememnt and the costs involved. if at that point I find out it exceeds the deemed value of my truck i will take it and sell it or trade it. they are cool with this and totally understand where I am coming from. I highly suggest everyone do this as it will save everyone alot of headaches. Who Knows maybe certain situations will require a buyback. I know my truck is totally unsafe to drive. the sway bar mounts dissintegrated and there is a rust hole that is about 10″ long as well. there is also the cross member for the transfer case tht is about to fall off the main part of the frame becuase there is no metal left, just iron oxide dust.
good luck to you all..
Oh and Dana is not paying for this according to what I have read, probably AIG is……hahaha…hey maybe this IS part of the stimulus money…
Chris – EXCELLENT advice and great idea.
I like many of you posting on this drive a Tundra that is on the brink of being worthless. I received my letter, drove to my dealer, and in a 24 hour period I was being told my truck needed a new frame. My first reaction was Oh okay. Since then I have having fun politely arguing with my case manager, service manager, and my wife about having to buy a new truck.
As I read the posts, I am looking for other similar problems being reported. On top of the free frame replacment, I was told I needed about 4,500 dollars of other repairs. (I JUST DID MY TIMING BELT, PLUGS, THERMOSTAT, and WATER PUMP SIX MONTHS AGO, I THOUGHT I WAS SET FOR A WHILE)
I have had similar issues to those on the post. I have already replaced the brake lines two years ago, emegency brake cable frozen and repaired 3 times, and two cracked manifolds. Now I have an issue with something I never heard of (load leveler)that casued my rear brakes to fail and cause my front break to completely wear out becasue they were working overtime. Power Steering rack, CV boots leaking, and some other small items that add up. THere is no way I am paying 4,500 bucks to repair a truck not worth 4,000. Especially, when I read some of the issues everyone have presented. So Toyota is going to give me a rental for a month and put 10 grand into a truck that is going to be worthless. Toyota can quarentee to make money off me with a buy back incentive program that puts me into a new Toyota. Hell they make money in a buy back and guarentee me as a paying costomer for aleast 5 years of payments on a new truck. But I have been told by my case manager at Toyota National my arguement makes great common sense, but that is not the decision made. After I left the dealer to get some stuff from my truck I drove my nice Toyotal rental to my GMC/Sierra dealer to test drive a new truck. Keep the info comming. I am learning alot.
Know this is a Tundra Forum but have a Tacoma question. I have a 2003 dcab 4×4 I bought new. I got my letter hear in southern IN to have mine checked. I have areas that have bubbled out on the bottom of the frame where the rear shock mounts are welded to the frame and alot of other areas where places are flaking off of the frame. My factory tow package looks brand new except where it makes contact with the frame. The dealer held a ball pin 6″ from the frame and tapped it, said it passed, will call me later to spray something on it and a 15 year frame warranty now. Has it been proved that they used bad steel or is this the corrosion-resistant protection problem they used in the letter? Medley’s frame shop in Louisville told me that once it started the stuff they are going to spray on it will NOT stop it unless the frame is sanded down. This last winter is the only major salt my truck has seen and all high-way miles to work. Any info would be welcome!
Is there a lawyer out there that ownes a Tundra that might be able to help us with advise on the battle over who pays for what?? Any help is much needed!!
Greg again you throw insults at the owners of Toyota’s then you got the nerve to state you apologize if you pissed someone off. The only screwed up person here is you. Colon problem? Only you should know. You’re not only an a$$ but you’re all a$$. You’re nothing but a spoiled brat which no one at home pays attention to you so you come here mock Toyota owners and say what you can to put an owner down. Let me give you some news kid there is no perfect manufacturer. Since you are the perfect owner you should have a perfect vehicle which doesn’t exists. Now come back to reality. As I stated on other threads you’re pissed at Toyota so you take it out on Toyota not the owners. Now grow up.
Yep you got me Mickey. LMAO Midnight Rider
So where can I get a performance tuner at for a Tundra?
I don’t have that listed now, do I Greg? I’m not intrested in a tuner. Now Greg if you read most of the posts you would see where the name came from. You have something against the Allman brothers? Keep digging Greg you may find out I own a Prius too. While you’re at it look at all my pics too. Like I said total a$$.
So the Carrot my dealer hung in front of me was this. the truck I have now isnt worth a damn, and the frame needs to be replaced while it is owned by a “civilian” not a dealer. After the frame is replaced and whatever else, bumpers etc – it is worth more than it would be if I were to trade it with a good OG frame (original) without the safety issues of course. so when the truck is done they will offer me the most they can in trade. and give me a smashing deal on whatever I desire. Now My dealer may be one of the few that are willing to work this out. but I think they are really winning me over, I was about ready to buy a new Silverado. I may still buy the Chevy, but if they just bought me out, I would buy ten more toyotas, I have had 10 toy trucks over the years, this Tundra was very dissapointing to say the least. SO if I could get a new Tundra for half the price of new, I would be all over it!!
Robert, if it rusts out in 15 years they will take care of you. go for it and just know its fine for 15 years at least. seriously tho, will you keep it for 15 years?
I just bought a beautiful 2000 Tundra SR5 on April 26 (my first truck ever), with only 44,700 miles on it, locally owned, from Oxmoor Toyota in Louisville. I have (2) Camrys, but needed a truck to occasionally pull a two horse trailer, plus the general usefullness of a pickup. During the buying process, I spotted a lot of rust just by looking at the springs at the wheel wells, and brought it up to my sales person and he called the service manager to meet with me and they told me that the truck was sound, and we discussed the recall concerning the cross members. I accepted the opinion and signed the purchase agreements. The next morning I saw a puddle of oil on my garage floor, which caused me to slide under the truck to try to find the source, and I found an even bigger problem. I have never seen so much rust in my 50 years of buying cars. I immediately wrote a letter to the sales person and hand delivered it, and included pictures to show why I was so concerned. There was no response so in a couple days I wrote a letter to the GM of Oxmoor Toyota, including pictures, and asked to meet with him. He did not offer to meet with me, but passed the letter on to the service manager, who called me and invited me in to put it on the rack while he hammered the frame with a hammer to indicate that it was solid. I asked for a second opinion, perhaps by their Toyota rep, and was told this could not happen. He told me I could show it to the person I chose to undercoat the truck. I did this, and got a quote of $430 (my expense), but he said the rust was so bad that it may have to be done once per year. I did not undercoat it yet, but then called Toyota Corporate, and was assigned case number 1005051146. I explained that not only was my frame rusted very very badly, but every component under the truck was frozen with rust. Not a single component could be removed with a wrench, including the spare tire, because every attachment is rusted solid, frozen if you will. I told her that I was also concerned that any of these components could fall off at any time. She said Toyota could not help with that, and the frame had to be perforated to qualify. She then informed me of the “AOF” frame recall that has not been signed off on. I love this truck, and am not pushing for a “buy-back” because it’s beaufiful and mechanically great. I need a new frame. Any suggestions?
Chris, there is reassure that I want. When it rusts out in 15 years they will take care of it. Tell us how easy has that been? Thats somthing i will look forward to, 4 more years till frame replacement! Why are you driving a Chevy again?
-
Bill if you feel the dealer is giving you the run around find another. Theres are more than one in that area. Seems like you may have been taken.
Greg, sorry for the long message, but my case is a little different. I have been thinking of doing exactly what you suggested (work with another dealer). My plan is to take it to the Toyota dealer that serviced the Tundra for 10 years, right across the river in Indiana. It’s only about 1/2 hour from my house. Thanks again.
Andy – It’s a great point, but for every person who would rather have an incentive, there’s a person who gets really irritated at the idea of having to buy a new vehicle and make payments. The *best* scenario is either/or…but that’s just too logical for Toyota to adapt. Why that is, I have no idea.
##
Chris – Good to hear. It sounds like you’re making the best of a less than perfect situation.
##
Charles (Bill) – The warranty is active – the rep at Toyota was mistaken. Any dealer anywhere in the US can replace the frame under warranty provided it meets the criteria above.
Chris, Yes I plan to keep my 03 taco for a long time, its paid for, been takin good care of. I also hate the idea of a frame failure driving down the road. A ball pin hammer test with 6″ strikeforce is not the same force put on a frame under normal conditions. So thats why I asked the questions above. Everything under my truck has no rust except the frame and have the pictures to prove it. So I wanted to ask if anyone had heard if this was a steel problem at the frame plant. The 15 year warranty protects the truck but does it protect me? From looking at the bubbled out places on the bottom of the frame at the rear shock mounts welds it looks like the steel was damaged by the welding process.
Robert – That bubbled out steel IS the welding process – what you’re describing sounds normal. Surface rust definitely wears down a frame, but it takes a very long time to do so (dozens or even hundreds of years, depending on the steel, the climate, etc.). As for the quality of the steel itself…Toyota warrantied the frames for a reason. While you have no need to worry, it’s not a bad idea to invest in some rust protection. Wash your frame regularly during the winter months (most car washes have an undercarriage option) and park your vehicle indoors if at all possible.
Has Toyota come out and stated how long they will warranty the Tundra’s that either have corrosion protection applied or a frame replaced? All I can find is the 15yr warranty for the Taco’s, nothing on the Tundra. Now keep in mind, this 15yrs starts from the original sale date. So if you have a 1998 Taco that was bought iun 1998 and have this service completed today, Toyota really is only covering you until 2013. That’s 3yrs from now, which in my mind, isn’t much of a warranty or backing of their work. But at least this would give you 3 more years worth of coverage.
http://wot.motortrend.com/6233.....index.html
Justin – Nothing on the Tundra other than the warranty on 00-03 frames is extended through April 2012. I don’t know for sure, but my guess is that Toyota feels that’s enough time to fix all the trucks with rust problems and/or apply rust inhibitor.
##
As for 15 yrs not being enough time to warranty a frame, I look at it this way: The average American drives 12k-15k miles per year. After 15 years, that’s 180k to 225k miles, far outside the “normal” range of use. I know that some people go much further than that, and I know that some people don’t drive as frequently, but the line has got to be drawn somewhere. I actually think 15 years is the right amount of time (in fact, I think you and I discussed this very question in another post).
Does anyone know if a dealer can decide that a frame needs to be replaced due to the condition whereby everything, I mean everything, is extremely rusted with cracking (the beginning of a failure), big flakes of rust hanging on everything under the truck, with all components and fasteners, screws, bolts, straps, is “frozen” with rust? Or, are they only going to replace a frame if they find a perforation the size of a marble? Everyone who looks under my truck cannot believe the extent of the rust everywhere, but I don’t think there are any perforations the size of a marble. The 2000 Tundra is absolutely beautiful from the frame up, and only has 45,000 miles on it. Any insight would be welcome.
Charles W – Dealers are supposed to look for a 10mm hole in the frame or large flaking chunks. Since the “hole” requirement doesn’t have to be an actual round hole (it can just be a chunk missing that amounts to creating a 10mm hole), the standard is actually pretty loose. Also, as far as I know, Toyota isn’t requiring the dealers to send in any proof on this repair…so it’s likely you can get your local dealer to replace a frame even if your truck doesn’t exactly meet the requirements.
Jason looks like I changed my TONE in previous comments. Mickey started off on me, ended with me blowing him off and with Mickey and Chris telling eachother to F off. But no comment to them about there tone! But hey atleast I was able to give Bill some advice in the mist of needing to change my tone and two others cursing at each other.
Jason, this is very helpful and makes a lot more sense than simply looking
for a hole in the frame. This is the way I thought it should be. However,
I was speaking to a service advisor today (in Clarksville, IN) and he said they pretty much have to go by Toyota’s guidelines, meaning the 10mm hole. I think so many of them are afraid to make a decision, because they have to get approval from Toyota, supposedly. Thank you again.
greg – I didn’t realize you were still following this post. You didn’t respond to my questions, so I figured you had tuned out. In any case, I’ve deleted the comments. Thanks for reminding me.
Tundra owners, I’d be very cautious and document everything. Back in 2002, Toyota came out with its self-proclaimed “generous” and “unprecedented” offer to repair or replace engines that had oil sludge in them. However, almost immediately after all the news articles claiming that Toyota had done the right thing (while still blaming the vehicle owners, mind you!), Toyota privately began denying engine oil sludge CSP claims. Every loophole in the book was used, too.
In addition, Toyota did not come forward with information about the engine oil sludge condition. Facts were covered up and Toyota stalled the vehicle owners.
If no one is formally monitoring, Toyota will fall back to its old ways. We’ve seen it in the engine oil sludge debacle. Toyota claims that sludge is owner maintenance related but it refuses to SHOW US THE DATA! Seems two-faced of Toyota to demand SUA data but then deny the sludge victims access to the corporate data!
Watch Toyota like a hawk and don’t let your guard down. The Tundra campaign may be the next item added to Toyota’s “Win” list.
Charlene Blake
cblake@erols.com
Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution
Jason, I’m new to this forum. Are you a Toyota employee, a well-informed moderator, or what….. ? Thanks
Charlene – Good advice – your warning is well heeded.
##
Charles W. – I’m a bit of a automotive mis-fit. I worked in auto dealerships for about 9 years (mostly in sales, mostly at a Ford store) and I’ve always had an interest in vehicles (I’ve got an engineering degree as well). I like to think of myself as well-informed, but I’m often reminded by people much smarter than me that I’m NOT that well-informed!
Charles W. – By the way, I just looked at Toyota’s tech. instructions and the letter to customers again and it’s inconsistent. The tech instructions say that “perforation larger than 10mm” must be found, while the customer letter mentions both perforation and “large amounts of rust that flake off the vehicle.” Still, I’m certain that Toyota isn’t requiring dealers to submit proof before submitting a claim, so “close” might be good enough. Is there another dealer that you can have inspect your vehicle?
Yes, there is another dealer in Clarksville, IN, 1/2 hour from my home in Louisville. They serviced the Tundra off and on for 10 years. I called them yesterday to see if I could bring my truck this Thursday May 20. He said ok, no appointment needed, and it would take about an hour. Now, consider this; the dealership I first mentioned in Louisville that sold me the truck has another facility right across the street from the big main garage, called “Toyota Express”. They do oil changes, sell tires, and some fairly heavy duty mechanic work on mostly a drive-in basis. They know me since I have my two Camry’s serviced there. I drove in a few days ago to get their opinion on a “skid plate” covering the oil drain plug that the other garage could not get removed due to rusty screws and bolts I’m sure, just like all the others under there. The mechanic looked under my truck and said “man there’s a lot of rust under there”. He informed me they do some of the rust inspections there as well, and that if I wanted to come back, “they would work with me”. I’m thinking the main Toyota sales/service department was not about to seek a new frame for me because Toyota would question whey they sold it to me in that condition, which could shed a not too pleasant light on their dealership. Whereby their facility across the street could perhaps approach it as just another drive-in Toyota customer for an inspection via the “Limited Service Campaign AOF for frame rust”. I’m really torn as to which to go to because I know in my heart that I need a new frame. Remember, it only has 45K miles, and it was garage kept, and it still has almost rusted into oblivion. Any viewpoints as to which location would be most interested in working with me: the one that serviced it for 10 years, or the Toyota Express situation, based on comments made and the political situation. I look forward to your comments.
Charles W – I’m not sure, but my guess is that the place which sold you the truck should do the right thing and get the frame warrantied. You might try that approach – talking to the sales manager at the dealership you bought from. Best of luck.
I got denied a new frame yesterday. Word is they have to justify and get Toyota’s approval and stick to the 10mm perforation guideline. They said they would love the mechanic work paid by Toyota because things are a little slow right now. I’m saying my frame and connected parts, in some places, are flaking off in 1/16″ to 1/8″ in chunks, but there are no 10mm perforations.
Do you all think it would help to try for arbitration? Do you think I could ever get a Toyota rep to examine it?
It is not road worthy, correct? I would make a sign of plywood and put in the bed saying “01 April who ever toyota sold me this truck, look at the frame”. Park it right in front and wait! They will do something!
The dealer has inspected for the rear cross member recall situation and now has done the “limited service campaign AOF” and they say it is road worthy. I know I get to go back twice in the next two years for new inspections, but that doesn’t help much. They say I can tow my 2-horse trailer and drive her right on, and then come back in 2011 and 2012 if I want to.
My 2000 Tundra, 49000 miles, has been at the dealer here in Rhode Island for 10 weeks waiting for the solution to come down. As of this morning I was told that even though the recall was put in place Toyota has yet to release the frames for repair. Three weeks ago I was told my truck would be ready as of May 21st. Guess my boat will have to sit in the driveway, hoping I don’t blow the season waiting.
Mike, Toyota will drag this out or find a reason to disqualify you. WATCH OUT and don’t let it intimidate you away!
Toyota promised to repair or replace sludged engines. Bruce C. Ertmann (who flew out to “come and see” my issues with Toyota) said that 3.3 million letters were sent out to Toyota owners but he was WRONG as many Toyota owners never got the letter and didn’t know about the problem until the CSP period was long gone!
This company has a well-oiled (pun intended!) means of squashing any hopes of relief for legitimate Toyota owner cases. It will take a large scale grassroots organization to counter the PR Toyota is putting out.
It may be essential that groups of Toyota owners join together to make Toyota do the right thing. For now, Toyota may have appeased you all with frame issues, just as it did with the sludge victims in 2002. BUT…if you wait a few years, you may well learn that Toyota didn’t actually follow through with its self-proclaimed “generous” and “unprecedented” campaign!
Based on the latest Toyota Recall Congressional Hearing, Toyota has not changed one little bit. If anything, it has become even more arrogant in its “confidence” that it can pull the wool over the public’s watching eyes!! Ironically, Toyota did not produce one shred of scientific evidence that the SUA (sudden unintended acceleration) is not caused by the electronic system. All Toyota has done is pay a company MILLIONS to do a grand PR slamming of Dr. David Gilbert of Southern Illinois University and Sean Kane of Safety Research and Strategies! Toyota is VINDICTIVE and this is as Rep. Waxman and Rep. Stupak say, “most troubling.”
The buying public should be outraged by Toyota’s “terrorist” tactics! Attempting to ruin reputations is nothing more than bullying!!
Charlene Blake
Mike, that fits what I have been hearing, in that the parts and kits are not ready anyway. Just curious, does your truck has the infamous 10mm perforation? Did it fail the inspection hands down, and was it the limited service campaign AOF or the first recall concerning cross members. I’m upset because at this stage, mine has everything except a “perforation”. Thanks.
Bill, my truck has multiple perforations. I originally took it in to inspect the spare tire carrier for rust problems. The service mananger came out and told me the entire frame was eroded, and the truck was undrivable.
Charles W – It’s possible that the rust on your vehicle doesn’t meet Toyota’s criteria. However, big chunks flaking off sounds like a typical case. I wouldn’t advise parking it with a sign in the bed outside your local dealership, but I WOULD advise getting an independent inspection. Preferably from a state authority. If you can show that an independent party says the frame isn’t safe, you’ve got something to bring to arbitration. If not, then your frame is probably OK for now. You can always check back next year or the year after.
##
Mike – I don’t think “Toyota” is out to get you as Charlene warns – I think your dealership’s parts manager didn’t get the order in on time and/or Toyota has a back-log of frame orders. Toyota definitely made frames available when they announced this thing, and they have a process in place to continue to build and ship new frames as needed. I’ve spoken to dealers who have installed new frames and I know that they can be ordered (but when they’ll arrive may depend on demand).
##
Charlene – I appreciate your experience with the sludge issues, and I think it’s fair to warn everyone to be on their toes. However, I’ve known a lot of Toyota employees of the years and I can’t think of one who would intentionally try and screw a consumer. Sometimes they don’t make the right choices because they don’t understand or because they don’t know all the facts..but I haven’t met one that denied a claim on the basis trying to “screw” someone. Every warranty decision was made following the same exact process – it was never personal, and no one from Japan called when a repair was expensive.
##
To me, arguing that Toyota is acting with malice towards consumers is arguing that Toyota employees are personally out to get people. Consumers often take these kinds of things very personally, but trust me when I say that Toyota employees and dealership employees rarely get emotionally involved. You lose me when you act as if Toyota is ran by a bunch of terrorists.
##
Also, for the record, if you ran a business and someone wanted you to fix something you made 8 years ago for free, wouldn’t you look for a way to tell them “no?” It’s not personal – it’s business. Toyota is no different than Ford, Wal-Mart, or your local McDonalds – they’re all out to make a profit, and sometimes the consumer loses.
Jason, Toyota employees only do as Toyota employees are told to do. Of course it is Toyota Motor Sales, USA that would be giving directions on what response to give to a customer.
In cases of widespread and well-known problems, the Toyota employees are just much “victims” as are the customers. What Toyota employee is going to jeopardize his/her job, particularly in this economy?
The claims are denied because it is was TMS, USA dictates. Pure and simple. Yes, a dealership’s service manager can go to bat for you, but you may have to push him/her to do so.
Jason, I disagree. Arguing that Toyota does this or that is NOT saying that the employees are responsible. Again, the employees are doing as they are told. Consumers shouldn’t have that guilt placed upon them. Toyota’s actions don’t necessarily match the employees’ intent. If Toyota puts its own employees in danger of job loss just because it doesn’t reveal the extend of a problem or because it won’t cover the repairs for all the affected vehicles, then so be it. This is not the employee’s or the consumer’s fault.
Charlene Blake
Charlene,
I dont know what fantasy/parranoid world you live in but as far as my case and the others i have personally spoken with here in VT, our dealership is certain to take care of us. In fact in My case the dealership wanted to take my truck BEFORE the recall was announced (2 weeks before) and give me a rental on their dime so that they could take it up with Toyota themselves. In fact my service manager talked me into the rental and let me choose what i wanted to rent! As a contractor I need a truck that can tow and haul stuff, so I settled into a chevy tahoe with unlimited mileage and a tow package. This rental has cost them to date at least 1200$ and my frame kit is still on backorder, and my service manager still has a job. Now if these guys were out get us and screw us all dont you think they would have put me off for another few weeks and fired my service manager immediatly? or said “we’ll call you when your frame comes in, but in the meantime your truck is unsafe”?, no they did what is right. Maybe you need to grow a little sack and buck up to the fact that this is a monumental undertaking along with all the other customer satisfaction needs, they are a company trying to make it right, people get it wrong and service managers are stupid sometimes, or the tech is just downright “green”.I am sure they have some back door deals that we the consumer wont know about, and maybe this makes you uneasy but just like cable, if you dont like the content, shut it off!! Dont pay for cable TV if you dont like the content, ie dont buy toyotas if you dont like the way they do business. But just FYI.. More of a Toyota is made in the USA than 95% of Domestic trucks, so even tho these are Japanese trucks they are employing US workers. I bet your computer was made in China as well as most everything you bought at Walmart last week.
Jason I agree with your last post. Consumers can and do take it personally. I did it too on the headliner issue. As far as Charlene’s engine sludge issue she is on the wrong thread for that but personally if an individual is proactive in their maintenance that wouldn’t happen. I can say this for two reasons. One I do all maintenance at the dealership. They have a record and so do I. Second I do have a lifetime warranty which helps extremely.
Chris, there is no paranoia (is a personal attack really warranted here?) related to my observations over nine years now. Toyota came out with the CSP for the engine oil sludge problem. It bragged in the media that this was a “generous” and “unprecedented” campaign. Then, behind the scenes, Toyota owners began to contact me saying that not only did Toyota deny their repairs, they wouldn’t even look at their receipts which proved proper maintenance! It is all well-documented by Toyota owners. My *caution* for the Toyota Tundra owners here is based on almost a decade of experience in a major Toyota problem.
If you will access the online petition regarding Toyota engine oil sludge, you will note that over 3,100 Toyota owners are not happy with Toyota’s “generous” and “unprecedented” CSP. They claim that Toyota left them holding the bag—financially, physically, and emotionally! According to these Toyota owners, Toyota has *not* done the right thing.
Now, I came to this site because of my experience with a fairly well-known and publicized Toyota issue. Based on Toyota’s current issues with keeping information from the public (reference the latest Toyota Recal congressional hearing on May 20 and the latest Lexus “lurching” problem), I think a healthy dose of skepticism is good for any Toyota owner right about now. I am far from alone in this sentiment, rest assured.
I do know that the engine oil sludge matter does affect some Toyota truck owners as I have heard from a number of them. While this thread may be about the Tundra frame rust matter, I think the other information is valuable given the high profile that Toyota currently has in the media right now. There seem to be a myriad of problems that affect a number of Toyota model owners.
I do believe the free transmission of information and I am a staunch advocate of freedom of speech, particularly on the internet. Based on my experience with Toyota, I can tell you that I don’t believe the company has the same attitude (reference deleting of comments made on some of ToyotaUSA videos on YouTube). It seems to me that a company would have nothing to worry about IF there was nothing to find upon a search. Keeping a lid of important safety information is not a good business practice. I think we would all agree to that!
Charlene Blake
Chris, on another note, it is funny that you should say “fantasy world” in your post to me. I’ll try not to take that personally as I’m sure you know that personal attacks area violation of my website rules/regulations.
At any rate, those are basically the words used by Representative Waxman directed to Mr. James Lentz at the last congressional hearing. Rep. Waxman found the idea that Toyota had done “extensive testing” on the SUA problem to be a bit of “fantasy” on Toyota’s part! There was no documented proof that such testing had actually been done. Several representatives said that Toyota’s actions were “deeply troubling” and actually generated more questions than answers. It would seem in this case that it is Toyota that might be in a “dream world,” don’t you think?
I would love to know your reaction to the hearing. Does it all forebode what actions Toyota may have in the Tundra rust matter? Does it all give Toyota owners pause in regard to how Toyota might follow through with what it says it will do?
I think you see my line of thinking on all this, don’t you?
Charlene Blake
Charlene – I think we all see your line of thinking – you’re pissed, and you’re not getting over it anytime soon. I understand your frustration towards Toyota, but you’ve said that Toyota uses “terrorist” tactics, perpetuated outright lies about unintended acceleration being traced to Toyota’s electronic throttles, and sided with congressmen who are simply trying to score points with union constituents. It’s hard to take you seriously when you say things that simply aren’t rational or factually correct.
##
I’m not the expert on Toyota sludge problems that you are, but I would consider myself a knowledgeable Toyota observer and general auto industry observer. In my opinion, your problems with Toyota are no different than other people’s problems with Ford, Chrysler, or GM for real and perceived slights against the consumer. That’s not to say that I don’t care – I do – nor am I saying that Toyota shouldn’t be held responsible for mistakes (they should).
##
Truth time: There’s a fine line between sharing your message and anti-Toyota zeal, and I think you’ve crossed it. To me at least, it doesn’t seem like you’re just interested in sharing info about Toyota sludge problems. It seems like you’re out for blood.
Mickey – I think it’s human to take things personally that really shouldn’t be that personal…but we all get caught up in it sometimes.
OK just one more time Charlene, No I dont see your line of thinking…
its kind of like the accelerator issue, people are suing Toyota over a car that was “speeding out of control”? are they just plain stupid? turn off the farking key!!! My god are we Americans so stupid and spoiled rotten that we blame it all on everyone else now? Wah wah wah i want a new truck!! ( I do) but alas I am getting the next best thing, a new frame….
Change your damn oil as per the reccomendations!!!
I was buying and selling cars for 18years b4 my current occupation and toyota makes some darn great cars, so does BMW Porsche and Audi (what I dealt with), they all had problems, but very few ever did much about it. remember the accelorator issue in the 80s with Audi? what about the engine head problems of the Porsche 993? etc etc. SAABs sludge in about 3000 miles, Mazda trucks have a 3.5qt capacity and they sludge so fast it would make your head spin. none of these fine companies did what Toyota is doing so go away.
My Frame kit is still backordered so I’m going on vacation in the tahoe, Kids love it (full entertainment system included).. cant wait. beach here we come..
Jason, I must clarify as my words are being twisted. First, I said that Toyota was “terrorist” in its attempt to malign two professionals, Dr. David Gilbert and Sean Kane, instead of showing the conclusive data it claimed it had on the SUA testing. The testimony of the May 20 Toyota Recall congressional hearing will bear this fact out. I made no reference at all to the SUA matter and the electronics. I certainly did not use the word “lie.” I’m unclear on the comment about the congressmen and the union constituents—sounds like some bias toward the politicians?
I think you can validate that I have made no personal attacks on anyone. Apparently, someone has a raw nerve where discussion of SUA (sudden unintended acceleration) and engine oil sludge is concerned. I think both of these subjects are valid given the current events in the news media. I would question anyone’s wish to stifle this information.
There is no “anti-Toyota zeal” but there is pro-consumer activism. I was assuming that your site was a site that promotes the same, particularly as it pertains to the Tundra rusting frame matter. Is this not a meeting point for Tundra consumers?
Charlene Blake
Charlene – Terrorists use violence to strike fear in the hearts of the public – the fact that you use that word to describe Toyota is just silly. As for Gilbert and Kane, you need to do some more research as both have been discredited. There is no factual evidence of any sudden unintended acceleration problems related to the electronic throttle – http://www.tundraheadquarters......al-update/
##
This site is about the Tundra – not activism. In the interests of staying on topic, I’m going to ask that you refrain from commenting here about anything other than Tundra frame rust. Thank you.
Charlene: I hear you on all accounts. Toyota has created a pattern based on past experiences. Not saying they’ll do it here with the Tundra frame, but you do have to be suspect of their actions. Got to take what they say/do with a grain of salt. As well, I’ve seen on many Toyota sites, such as the youtube videos and some of their own corporate forums, where negative comments are quickly removed or not posted by their Admins. And get used to your words being taken out of context here. If you are not pro-Toyota all the time about every aspect, you are a hater and want to tear Toyota down. When in actuality, we just want Toyota to do the right thing by the consumer.
****
Jason: Like Charlene stated, I don’t believe it’s your typical Toyota employee that is the problem. As she stated, it’s more TMS USA and Toyota headquarters over in Japan. We saw this with the SUA issue, the dealers and TMS USA hand no control over the situation and had to do as told by Japan. Why would this be any different? And I don’t think Charlene is pissed, I think she is wary of Toyota’s words versus their actions. She is simply trying to warn others of Toyota’s unwillingness to live up to their claims. Does she have an axe to grind, maybe I don’t truly know. But think she has just cause to do so.
****
Mickey: Proactive maintenance? So what you are saying is, those people who took care of their Tundra’s (washed, waxed, regular maintenance, etc) and did all they could to keep the truck in perfect condition, are to blame for their frames rusting? That is the logic you are using with the Toyota engine sludge. I’ve seen plenty of accounts regarding the engine sludge where every service was completed at a Toyota dealer, where hopefully service records are kept, but were denied the engine sludge warranty. How about GM where you headliner kept collapsing. No matter how much time you spent at the dealer getting it fixed, it was never fixed properly, right? So why can’t we look at this engine sludge and frame rust issue in the same light as the Silvy headliner? They are manufacturer defects, plain and simple.
****
Chris: Great, you have a dealer that is footing the bill, hoping or knowing you are within spec for the recall. They know they’ll be reimbursed by Toyota, or hope to gain future business on a new vehicle if they can’t fix your Tundra under this warranty claim. And nice claim on your domestic parts content, but the Tundra still is not as domestic (parts or built) as my truck, based on the last content ratings that were released. But that is for another thread.
Why is this being compared to engine sludge? The issue with the engine sludge is that engine sludge is a tale tale sign o you didn’t do your maintenance. If it was serviced at Toyota or any where else and you had your records stating you followed the scheduled maintenance there was not a issue. The issue and most of the complaints (look it up) was owners taking there vehicles to the dealerships with sludge but no records to back it up the maintenance. People saying that they had it completed at places like Walmart but didn’t keep the receipt. Since engine sludge is cause by the breaking down of the oil along with overheating I would asked for records that oil changes where completed. No records, then I can say yes the engine sludge was caused from lack of maintenance.
-
Now with that being said what is the required maintenance on the frame that has anything in common with oil sludge?
http://articles.moneycentral.m.....Miles.aspx
-
The first two things they listed is key and apperently something that some need to heed.
Justin – I agree with Charlene’s bigger point that Tundra owners should stay on top of this warranty and not expect Toyota to go out of it’s way to help them. I don’t agree with the use of foolish language, and you know how I feel about the lack of proof surrounding all the allegations against Toyota’s electronic throttles.
##
greg – In Charlene’s defense, I think that Toyota might have some owners who genuinely followed the scheduled maintenance program and still ended up with engine sludge. Having said that, my personal experience with the matter agrees with your assessment. All of the people I’ve talked to don’t have records, and that’s on them.
##
Big picture to no one in particular – I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Maintaining your new vehicle at the dealership is your best protection against problems like engine sludge, air injection pumps that fail prematurely, bumpers and lug nuts with surface rust, etc. Toyota is always making mistakes (all manufacturers do). If you get your vehicle serviced at your local dealership, they WILL go to bat for you when a problem comes up.
Jason I agree with your last paragragh. Greg I hate to say it but I agree with you. Justin I wasn’t talking about the paint. Since you mentioned it yes by washing waxing/cleaning keeping up with it on a weekly basis or more if needed will keep the paint. I have no issue’s with my frame or paint. By being proactive does help. Justin just as Jason stated by taking it to the dealer you’re getting a great deal with great coverage. Like Greg stated taking it to Walmart you take your chances. As for the dealer keeping records I don’t trust a anyone of them. I still have my records for the 03 F-150. Eventually I’ll shred them. Justin just to give you insight about myself I always been into mechanics. Before I ever bought a brand new vehicle I did every major/minor repair. Been through GM school for 6 months and worked at a GM dealership in 76-77. I just keep up with the changes but now I let the dealerships get dirty and greasy.
Mickey: I was simply using the wash/wax and regular maintenance as an example. My point was, what if a person took care of their Tundra frame, by washing off as much magnesium chloride as possible after each snow storm? What if they lived along the coast, but religiously washed the frame to ensure it wouldn’t prematurely rust out due to the high salt content in the moisture filled air? And now they come to find out the frame’s junk. Just like the engine sludge. There are accounts of vehicles with low miles, having each oil change done approximately every 3K miles at a Toyota dealership, but they still developed the engine sludge. Whether Toyota warrantied the repair or not is not the concern. The concern is that they experienced engine sludge even though they did conduct regular maintenance. Just like the guy who’s frame rusted out even though he took care of his Tundra as best as possible. They held up their end of the bargain, but these were manufacturer defects plain and simple. Just because someone believes a person never conducted regular maintenance/washed their vehicle, doesn’t mean it’s true and doesn’t mean the person didn’t do the appove items.
Jason, I did use the word “terrorist” in quotation marks. It is wrong for a corporation to attempt to ruin reputations rather than to just show the requested (by Congress) scientific data. The congressmen are still waiting for the promised Toyota data to date. I did not realize that you were against the consumers who have come forward in the SUA matter.
I appreciate you telling me that I am not allowed to talk about anything but Tundra frame rust on this site. Are there other consumer issues on your site or is it a site to primarily get Toyota’s word out?
Greg, with all due respect, you have made a generalization about the Toyota engine oil sludge matter that is not true. There are thousands of Toyota owner petition signatories who have properly (actually better than recommended) maintained their vehicles and still gotten sludge. It is unfair to condemn them by making a generalization. Actually, the Tundra model has been involved, too. Oxygen sensors and other emissions-control components often fail in the affected vehicles.
Justin, I agree with much of what you have stated. I didn’t come out and say I wasn’t P.O.ed (note I don’t ever use such language when posting). I’m not. I’m simply pro-consumer. Caution is most definitely needed in this Tundra frame repair/replacement offer. There is no oversight group watching to see if Toyota actually follows through with its offer. Words are cheap; there needs to be monitoring.
I guess you can tell that I am totally supportive of consumers. Consumers don’t have lobbyists or the powerful advertising dollars to control what information gets out to the public. It is important for the public to see the auto consumers’ perspective, don’t you think?
Charlene Blake
I thought this subject was about tundra frame rust. All this other crap being spilled please take to another area. So to that, I am concerned about this frame replacement. To me, what happens when as they replace the frame they find all these other problems or worse yet, they hide them. Is that going to be my costs or is that considered part of the deal here on the replacment of the frame. Like brake lines/hoses, park brake cable, connections, mounts, etc. For example, when I hit a deer and need about some front end work, when they started, they found a good bit of extra parts that was rusted and had to be ordered on top of the other parts. Initially Toyota (service center, not the dealership) just wanted me to go away. I just now recieved my recall notice on the spare tire crossmember frame. I actually took my truck in back in January, and the first part of the recall was performed. My spare tire was removed and put in the bed. And told to bring truck back in for a Toyota rep to look at 2 weeks later. After that visit, I was told to open a case with Toyota as I did have severe rust issues and perferation. So when I called the 800 number, the first call I talked to 2 different people, who told me my issue had been take care of and my case was closed. How could it be closed, it wasn’t even open yet. So back to the dealership. They took this info and the next day I get a call back from them, different person. Same thing, case closed, and as I was trying to explain what had occurred, click, she hung up on me. Toyota service center actually hung up on me. So I go back to the dealership. They make the call and I then got a case number. I also file a complaint with NHTSA over the complete issue, the frame, and the way I was treated by service center. Then about a month and a half ago, they wanted to see my truck again. Then about a week later they notified me my frame would be replaced. So far the dealership has went to bat for me. Now Corp Toyota has been suspect at best from not getting a recall notice to me in a responsible time (I am the only owner and have the same address since 2001) to the call center trying to get rid of me. That was a bit upsetting at the least. So now i’m just waiting to see what happens. Any suggestions or ideas on how to proceed would be appreciated. Thanks!! Sorry this was so long.
RC, is Toyota’s campaign a real recall or just a program initiated by Toyota? Toyota had a “program” for the engine oil sludge matter and it promised to send out 3.3 million letters to the affected owners. Problem? Toyota didn’t send them out to all as promised. Like you, many lived in the same place and were the original owners of the vehicles. No letter.
It sounds like you are doing the right thing by filing a vehicle owner report at the NHTSA. I would also file one with the Center for Auto Safety at http://www.autosafety.org. Send Toyota a CERTIFIED letter now if you have not done so and let it briefly know your situation. Did you know that when Toyota says problems are “rare,” if bases this on the number of *formal letters of complaint* it receives? You must formally notify Toyota to be “on record.”
Charlene – Your defense of your use of the word “terrorist” if laughable. There’s simply no call for it. As for your allegations that I’m anti-consumer, I’m not pro or anti consumer – I’m anti-hogwash and pro-facts. If you take the time to review the evidence objectively, you’ll recognize that a lot of the things you’re so upset about aren’t black and white. Toyota isn’t perfect, but they’re not much better or worse than any other manufacturer…and the problems you’re upset about plague a lot of modern vehicles.
##
Back to the original topic.
##
RC – Officially, Toyota isn’t paying for anything other than the frame UNLESS the attached parts can’t be removed without being destroyed or damaged. Since the labor is essentially free, a few dealers are offering new parts at a steep discount as needed. As for the rotten process it took to get to this point, you’ll get no arguments from me or anyone else regarding the piss-poor way that Toyota has handled this thing.
##
Yes, that’s right, I said “piss” and “pissed” and I don’t care. “Piss” is in the bible folks, look it up!
First off grab the tissues and have a seat! Let it all out. Now focus on the future. So the vehicle is not road worthy, correct? Did they give you a rental/loaner? Did they say when they are going to do the replacement?
Charlene, apperenlty you didn’t do the research because If you would have you would have known about the oil sludge and wouldn’t be so focused on it now. Here’s what I’m willing to do for you, just tell us what you want to do. Grab a tissue and have a seat next to RC, let it out. I’m not saying it to be mean but stop complaining!
Greg, for now my truck is still road worthy and on the road. Thanks.
Charlene, yes it is a recall, SSC 90M – Certain 2000 through 2003 Tundra Vehicles Severe Corrosion of the Rear Cross-Member. That resulted in my spare tire being removed and put in the truck bed for now. And the future inspections by Toyota because they saw more rust than normal. Thanks for the info to post the complaint.
Jason, thanks for the info about replacement parts. Just looking for all the info I so when they call I’m ready to get it fixed.
Greg, I’m struggling to see the value in your comment to me or RC.
I smell the something fishy with the way Toyota is handling this Tundra frame rust situation. The same loopholes appear to be popping up that the sludge victims noted.
Bottom line is that the vehicle owners may be the one left holding the bag!
As I stated from the beginning, Toyota frame rust victims would be wise to keep close watch on what is done after the very public “announcement” by Toyota.
Charlene Blake
By all means RC you are correct about the engine sludge post by Charlene.
#####
Charlene you can mention about your oil sludge on the thread “All known 2007 Tundra problems. This thread is for rusted frames. You told Greg it was unfair to make a generalization for the oil sludge people, but you can by stating Toyota is terroristorganization. tsh tsh….
#####
Justin I’m sorry if I don’t believe the ones who claim they are doing the maintenance and they have oil sludge.
Charlene, how am I to rationalize with someone who compares toyota to terrorism? I thought everyone here knows my feeling about Toyota. Not a big fan. I don’t think they should replace the frame, it lasted during the warrenty period as they said it would. So why do they need to fix it? Oil sludge, no paper work stating maintenance, no repair. If you where worried about the way they conducted themselves with the oil sludge then why did you purchase a Toyota? Really why? That should have spoke in loud volume about your quailty and reliability. If you dislike your Tundra the one YOU made the decison to buy. Get rid of it, so can this subject end? I think there has been more than enough drama on it!
Oh the value of my comment was focus on the future.
I went to my dealer again today and spoke with the tech who does all the Tacoma frames and will be doing the tundras. He said that the regional Toyota rep had stopped in recently and asked what should be included in the kits. Do my guess and joes ( the tech) is that they are still putting this together so I am sure they will let us know more when they organize better. In the meantime my truck isn’t gathering miles and us in safe keeping.
My suggestion is go to your dealership, meet the technician(s) keep proactive, and positive. Don’t act like a spoiled child and get mad when it doesn’t go your way or looks like it won’t. These folks that work for Toyota are hard working Americans like most if us as want to do the right thing, at least here in liberal VT. I am sure they won’t tell you something that isn’t true they will just tell us what they know is for sure.
In the end no matter what happens, I will have a truck worth a he’ll of alot more than it was 2 months previous.
Okay, I have been seeing information that 2000-2003 Toyota Tundra owners maybe offer incentives or buys backs. Is that official or just talk. I had a case manager at Toyota and they told me they are just replacing frames and that is it. But now is am reading more and more about incentives or buybacks. My 2000 Tundra has been sitting for three weeks waiting for a frame. I would rather have the incentive or buyback than a new frame at this point. Does anyone know the truth.
Chris – Great advice, great point. It’s a work in progress.
##
Andy – Toyota *WAS* buying back Tundras on a case-by-case basis, but that has stopped. I could never confirm rumors of a new vehicle incentive.
Jason,
The use of *was* is interesting. I was told by my case worker at Toyota National that they never did a buy back for the Tundra not was it ever a possibility. I just wish knew who really knows what. I have not reason not to believe you and not reason not to believe Toyota. Thanks
Andy – I’ve suspected that some of the buy-back offers actually came from dealers, but I’ve been told very specifically by a couple of people first-hand that Toyota offered them a buyout, and a service manager confirmed that he talked about it with his Toyota rep at one point a few months ago. I think that they did happen, but I think Toyota decided early on that it was a bad strategy.
If people were completely rationale about things, getting a check would make the most sense. The trouble is, a lot of people don’t want to buy a new truck and don’t want payments, so they get upset with a buy-back offer. Either way, consumers are upset.
My 2000 Tundra has been at the local dealer for 3 months now in which I was given a Camry. I have a case filed with Toyota. I have instructed local dealer that he can order the new frame but nothing is to be done until I receive an official letter from Toyota that specifically states what is covered an not covered. I am concerned about parts that they have to take off and can not reuse when they are replacing the frame. Meaning we are stuck with the cost. We should not have to pay for anything. We are still waiting for the official letter from Toyota. The local dealer has been told that Toyota will pay for up to a set number of labor hours and nothing beyond that – so, another cost to the consumer. The local dealer also heard of some frame replacements in the area that had issues replacing parts or ran into other problems – again, sticking the consumer with costs they should not be responsible for…
Kevin, the service advisor at my dealership told me everything dealing with the frame and any issues during the replacement discovered would be taken care of. Again, just what was said by him. I expressed the same concerns you have about parts and labor of items broke because of the frame and/or the frame work and I was told everything would be taken care of. I also said I need a truck during the replacment and he told me they would rent a truck for me. I would go back request a truck in place of the camry if you need your truck. I do. I have tried to do everything the dealership has requested and they have been great but I can’t say the same for Corp. Toyota. They are a PIA, so I’m working with the dealership as much as I can.
Kevin Ok, so you don’t want to pay anything. Why don’t you go get your truck and take it to the junk yard or stop complaining? They are giving you a chance to take a unsafe truck and put life back in it for years to come. But you apparently you want a new truck for nothing. So take the offer or scrap it but stop complaining and make a choice!
That’s funny the PIA is fixing a truck that worked as advertised and lasted as advertised putting someone in a vehicle that meets their standard. But you call them a PIA. If I was them I would hand you back you truck with directions to the junk yard. Apperently some people ARE spoiled brats that are ungrateful.
Greg, you are Toyota, just plain and simple.
Kevin – I think you’re going to wait for that letter for a long time – Toyota probably isn’t going to honor your demands (that’s just not something automakers do).
– they all are. Still, I think that consumers shouldn’t expect to have a bad experience. That’s almost always a formula for disappointment.
##
However, I do think that your concerns about parts are covered by the TSB, which instructs dealers that parts damaged or destroyed during the frame replacement process are to be replaced as part of the warranty. Your dealership is simply covering their rear-ends – they want to be able to say “I told you so” if there are any additional costs, despite the fact that there shouldn’t be any. See RC’s comments along with the comments of others.
##
Greg – Toyota IS a PIA –
Jason, I don’t consider Kevin’s approach is demanding at all. He is simply looking out for his consumer rights, as he should! Toyota’s history in its own “campaigns” is not good—it doesn’t follow through. Kevin is wise in his decision to hold work until he receives that letter that Toyota promised. Hey, some sludge victims are still waiting for that letter promised years ago!! Jason, with all due respect, don’t you think that the automaker, particularly Toyota, wouldn’t be in the trouble it is currently in if it had honored consumer rights in the first place?!? Toyota has promised to “really listen” to its customers! Are you suggesting that Kevin doesn’t deserve the promised treatment? If so, wouldn’t that be two-faced?
Kevin, hold out and stand firm. You deserve to be treated the way Toyota publicly promised to treat you. You have every right not to expect to pay for anything that hinges on the frame replacement. Toyota will nickel-and-dime you to the tune of thosands of dollars if you let it!
Greg, I have to whole-heartedly agree with R.C. Even Bruce C. Ertmann, former Corporate Manager at Toyota, pretended to be someone he wasn’t in order to infiltrate the Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution group in its early days (circa 2002). Anyone who thinks Toyota doesn’t monitor and indirectly participate in dialogue online is only kidding himself/herself. It is as clear as the nose on your face—all you have to do is look for it.
Jason, this isn’t a site that promotes maximum consumer action. Are you in some way affiliated with Toyota or helping to promote its side of the frame matter? Your statement earlier about some of the congressmen in the May 20 Toyota congressional hearing clearly shows your bias. Can you please clarify in the interest of total transparency? Thanks!
Charlene Blake
Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution
Charlene – Kevin said “I have instructed local dealer that he can order the new frame but nothing is to be done until I receive an official letter from Toyota that specifically states what is covered an not covered.” Then he goes on to say that he wants to make sure that Toyota doesn’t nickle-and-dime him for all the parts that he may or may not need replaced during the frame repair. In MY mind, that means that Kevin is looking for a very long and exactingly detailed letter. If that is what he’s waiting for – and based on his comment that’s my understanding – then that letter will never come. Toyota simply will not do such a thing – no automaker would.
##
On the other hand, if you’re saying Kevin should wait until he gets the form letter regarding this issue from Toyota, why? The letter isn’t necessary – his dealer can provide him with documentation of the special service campaign, and the repair order he’ll sign will clearly state that the frame replacement cost will be covered under warranty.
##
If Kevin is waiting for some sort of letter that says Toyota will fix whatever they find that’s broken during the frame replacement, the documentation states that Toyota will fix whatever parts are broken or damaged during the repair. He doesn’t need a letter that says the same thing.
##
As for total transparency about me and TundraHQ, the closest I’ve ever come to accepting payment from Toyota is when a Toyota dealership paid me for some advertising here on the site back in 2007. Aside from that, all the revenue I generate here is from Google AdSense and affiliate relationships. I don’t own any Toyota stock, and I don’t have a super-secret Swiss bank account that Akio wires money to, LOL. If you look at the posts I’ve written over the last 3+ years, you’ll find a LOT of posts that aren’t complimentary to Toyota.
##
Here’s a tip: Instead of assuming that everyone who’s not with you must be somehow allied with Toyota, consider the concept that you might just be wrong.
##
As for my comments about members of congress grand-standing to try and get votes – that’s what congress people do. Their public statements are no more significant to me than celebrity gossip. If you think some politician’s comments about some scandal are pertinent or important, I pity you. They’ve got nothing to do with nothing.
##
In regards to Toyota electronic throttle problems: I don’t think it’s biased to reject a theory that doesn’t have any supporting evidence. If you want to discuss this matter, please comment here – http://www.tundraheadquarters......al-update/ – this thread is reserved for Tundra frame replacement comments.
well into week number 3 and all tundra frames to my dealership on a To be Determined list, which means Toyota doesn’t even know when it will arrive,
since i am a tech at the dealership, i can keep tabs on my truck, but no information is flowing,
Totally agree Jason. Charlene I’ve been on this website for almost as long as Jason. He puts things the way he see’s them whether they are pro or con for Toyota. You need to read the other threads Jason written before you can comment like that.
Charlene, you have to take what some people say with a grain of salt. They act like they know what they are talking about but can’t give reference to the facts!
Todd – Interesting – thanks for the tip.
##
Mickey – Thanks for the vote of confidence.
well I read lots of stuff here,, I think its a lot of crap,, I took my 2000 Tundra to Toyota on Friday with nothing more than the recall letter on the cross member, I was told that they had to do both inspections in order to replace the cross member ( My tire fell off). They kindly told me that it failed both inspections and that they only needed pin holes in the frame to have it fail. They offered me a rental so they could replace the frame and also told me and I quote ” TOYOTA WILL REPLACE THE FRAME FOR FREE BUT ANY PARTS THAT BREAK OR ARE REPLACED TO COMPLETE THE FREAME REPLACEMENT WILL BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE OWNER AND THAT AVERAGES AROUND $3000.00.” yes 3 thousand dollars on average. How nice of them to invite me there with a recall letter that is only meant to keep their parts and service departments busy,,, Its not gonna happen,,,, its gonna be bye bye for toyota truck owners and hello GM and Ford
this is a Crock on the part of Toyota,,,, Really
Matt you prooved you’re childish. Now you are trying to make it personal. Make sure you hit every thread here to leave your comment.
ok got my truck back last week with the new frame but almost got killed leavin the dealer, THEY PUT IN NEW BRAKELINES N FORGOT TO BLEED THE BRAKES!!!! when i got it home i checked n they never recharged the ac which was workin fine, they did not fill the power steering fluid, when i called n questioned them about the spare tire hanger i was told” ooo yeah,,,,,umm thats on back order n when it comes in they will install it”. they gave me back a incomplete truck. I AM TAKING IT TO AN INDEPENDENT GARAGE AN HAVING IT GONE OVER, CHECK THE PARTS THEY SAY THEY REPLACED N SEE IF THEY R REALLY NEW!!! IM SELLING MY TRUCK IM DONE DONE DONE WITH THESE ASSHOLES AT TOYOTA!!
Greg and Mickey, interesting “gatekeeper” position you maintain here!
Don and Mad Max, I am sorry about your experience with Toyota. You are far from alone. What has been done in the case of engine oil sludge is most definitely important in this frame matter. Toyota has found ways to continue to put the responsibility for high cost repairs on the consumer, and this is just plain wrong.
I know, I know…Toyota has made the statement that it will replace the frames for free, provide loaner vehicles, etc. Sure! It made this statement in the engine oil sludge matter, too. THEN, it stop sending out letters, stopped doing sludge inspections for free, started acting “ignorant” about what the Toyota engine oil sludge policy was, and started once again making Toyota owners pay for the full repairs. If the dealership did admit knowing about the problem, it found loopholes to deny the claims.
This is obviously true because a class action lawsuit was initiated and won by the auto consumers. The only problem is that Toyota self-limits its liability by not including all models and model years applicable. I don’t know if this might be true in the case of the frames or not.
Talk about checking to see if replacements were made—YES! This should be done. Many Toyota owners have found that their engine were not replaced at all—just rebuilt. In some cases, owners found that parts that were supposed to be replaced were not. In the case of engine oil sludge, Toyota owners say that they were lied to by dealerships and that information was intentionally kept from them. Many of these owners have retained attorneys.
It is clear to many of us that Toyota’s actions (or lack thereof) are repeated no matter what the major problem is. Toyota’s history of handling major problems is very applicable in the case of the frame replacement campaign. Anyone who suggests that it is not is intentionally condoning Toyota denial!
Charlene Blake
Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution
Don – I think they’ve got the quote backwards – Toyota can’t legally warranty a part and then refuse to include any parts that are damaged AS A RESULT of their warranty repair. I think what they’re saying is that they won’t fix any parts that are already broken or damaged – they HAVE to fix parts they break while conducting the repair.
##
mad max – That’s inexcusable – who did they have do the work? It sounds like that dealership needs a new shop manager and then they need to fire some techs.
I dont know who you are Jason but you must work for the Toyota PR dept. I quoted exactly what the dealer said. they wont touch it unless the comsumer agrees to pay and that cost averages around 3000.00,,, what a waste, the truck has 140k on it and they want to spend 10k and me spend 3k on it,,, this is way beyond frustrating. Dont sit here and blow smoke up everyones ass telling them how upstanding Toyota is about this,,
Don – That dealership sucks. I just read through the 13 page dealer letter AND the 73 page technical manual AGAIN and I have two things for you:
##
1. No where does Toyota say that consumers will have to buy parts in either of those documents. In fact, the technical manual explicitly lists new parts that are required for the repair and PROVIDED free of charge by Toyota as part of the new frame kit.
##
2. What you’re being told is ILLEGAL. There’s a thing called the Magnusson-Moss act that regulates consumer warranties. It says a lot of things, but one of them is that if you have a product that requires a warranty repair, that repair can’t have a cost. Think about this logically – if a warranty repair requires me to incur a cost, then it’s not really a warranty, is it?
##
You need to a) stop listening to this dealer and b) start thinking about this logically. What they’re telling you is wrong.
##
You can educate yourself here by reading what the FTC has to say about warranties. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pub.....nuson-Moss
##
There’s no excuse for this dealership behavior – what they’re trying to do is pad the labor time because they don’t want to do this repair in the first place. So, after you’ve educated yourself and found that what I’m saying is correct, GO TO ANOTHER DEALER. For anyone else reading this, don’t let dealers feed you BS. They can’t EVER charge you to perform warranty work – it’s ILLEGAL. Frankly, this should be obvious…
It is completely logical and obvious to me,,, they have told me that anything that breaks during the frame replacement will be the responsibility of the owner and they say that is what TOYOTA says and there is nothing they can do about it. the average cost is appx. $3000.00. Seems to me that Toyota just wants the consumer to just go away and not bother them,,,, and that is going to happen in lots of cases,,,, they wouldnt give me the name of their Toyota Rep,,,, do you know where I can get that rep for this region,,, central Mass or the New England area
they are willing to do the work but making it very trying for the consumer to meet their BS guidelines
I’d like to thank everybody for the lively conversations connected with our Tundra issue. There is much discussion needed to help keep us informed of the ongoing issue. I’d also like to thank Jason for your input, work and especially our last hit that help me see some things from a different perspective. One of the recent posts caught my eye (June 7th) and it was worthy of some research, which I did yesterday and here is what I was told;
(1st) I called the FTC concerning the Magnuson-Moss Law and when I talked with Karen and Mona they told me that they don’t interpret the Law I should to speak to a lawyer
(2nd) I then called Kimmel & Silverman {1 800 Lemon Law} and she told me that the Lemon Law {serious joke} and the M-M law doesn’t apply to my case. If my Tundra was a 2004 or newer maybe but since its a 2000 the M-M can’t help me. She said I needed to speak to my Attorney General.
(3rd) I called my Attorney General’s office {1 800 441 2555} here in Pa and spoke to Neil. He confirmed what the lawyer told me and relayed his professional experience to by stating that, “In my experience the manufacturer will do as little as possibe” I needed to call the US Product and Saftey Commission
(4th) I called them {1 800 3274236} but in the midst of my scenerio relay they cut me off and told me that this isn’t their area of expertise I needed to call the NHTSC
(5th) So I called them (1 888 327 4236) and spoke to Ray. I gave him the same line, ” I have a 2000 Tundra recalled by Toyota for the holes in my truck frame. Am I responsible for any cost associated with the parts damaged upon removal from the old frame to be put on the new frame?” He put me on hold several times and finally came back with this statement. He said that if, during the frame switch parts are damaged the consumer MAY be held responsible for the cost of the new part. It is up to the dealer and manufacturer. The consumer COULD be held responsible for the cost of the new part but not the labor.
I spent the day working the phone to prepare myself for the phone call from the dealer. They have had my truck since April and I’m gathering as much info as I can to have an intelligent conversation with the service manager. I hope this input helps.
Dave, thats a lot of leg work, I am very curious to see where you get with the dealer, I took my truck home because I didnt want it in limbo like so many others (although it is in limbo anyway) but I have not yet received the letter about the frame I have only received the letter about the cross member.
Don, I have to agree with Jason on your dealer issue. Up to this point, the dealer whom I have been dealing with has been nothing but absoulutley professional and kind to my plight. They gave me a 2010 Tundra to use till they get to me and have keep me free from worry. While at the dealership I saw the Tacoma KITS being installed w/o cost to the consumer and that has helped me to not jump to conclusions. I am resting in the facts I have so far but that doesn’t stop me from looking around to see if what I have seen is issue wide. All dealerships are not the same and you need to go to another dealership and look around before you tell them why you are there. See how they run their facility to judge if they are professional or not. I went w/o any written info and they ‘confiscated’ my truck and put it in a line with the others, all the while treating me as if I mattered which bolstered the Toyota image for me. Don’t write off getting your truck repaired just yet. It may take some effort and fight but it will be worth it in the long run. Wether it gets the repair or not you will have the personal satisfation that you gave it a good fight.
Dave, thanks for the kind words, but the issue with the Tacoma is differrent and was spelled out to me by the dealer. With the Tacoma there is no cost to the customer at all even if the parts break while the frame is being changed,, this is different with the Tundra, Toyota has said that they guide lines are different and the cost of any parts that break during the frame fix will be the responsibility of the owner.
This is a recall,,, issued by TOYOTA,,, WHY SHOULD ANYONE HAVE TO HAVE THE PERSONAL SATISFACTION OF A GOOD FIGHT.
I hope you are enjoying the nice truck they are letting you drive,,, Ill bet you are in for a big suprise,, I am still curious to hear
here they want to give you some cheap rental from ENTERPRISE
Dave in PA – Very interesting quote from the NHTSC worker – I think the issue here is that it’s not always clear as to *why* a part was damaged. The dealer and manufacturer could argue that parts were damaged because they were old, not because they were defective. Therefore, the consumer should pay. HOWEVER, I don’t think that’s the right answer. It’s not a warranty if I have to incur a cost to receive the benefit. To me, at least, it’s cut and dry…but I’m certainly glad to hear about your experience, and I may very well be wrong (only I don’t think so).
##
Don – I think the issue you’re having comes back to the dealership you’re working with. When a part breaks, the dealer has two options: 1) Call Toyota and ask them to pay for a new part. 2) Call you and do the same. Some dealers think it’s easier to call a customer than call the manufacturer, and many times it’s because these dealers either have warranty claim issues with Toyota (too many claims and dealers get audited) or they have service managers who simply aren’t willing to do the leg work to call their rep. Your local Toyota dealer is 90% of the problem here – have you spoken to another dealer?
##
Don – One more thing: Why did the dealer say the Tacoma was different? I can obtain a copy of the Tacoma’s frame warranty letter and compare it to the Tundra’s frame warranty letter to see if they’re blowing smoke.
I have a 2004 Tundra at the dealer of purchase in Maui Hawaii. The frame is so rusted the dealer says it should not be driven. Too dangerous. But it doesn’t fall into the 03 recall campaign and I must fix it myself. Sorry good luck? They will not help??????? This is crazy. It was built in 12/03. Too late in that year?
PS: I take care of this 04 like a baby. I feel like it’s my new truck. It’s cherry accept for frame? 64000 miles. Please someone HELP! I’ll try that lemon law # in the morning…..The Servco Toyota dealer is a wicked nasty place.
Joe: Sorry to here of the dilemma you’re in. We will most likely hear many more issues like this for owners of 04-06 models as they get older. I can’t provide any assistance, but do sympathize with you. Our only hope is that Toyota will come to their senses and extend the program to cover all first generation Tundras. Would seem hypocritical to warranty the 00-03 models, but not the 04-06 when they were built on the same frames by the same manufacturer. Only thing I can think of is Toyota is warrantying the 00-03 models first, then will launch a 2nd campaign for the 04-06 models that are impacted. Just wishful thinking I guess. But good luck and hope you can either get Toyota to include you in this campaign or find some way under you states lemon law to get the frame replaced. Both are highly unlikely scenerios though.
Joe – That is crazy. Toyota did mention to NHTSA that they would address the rear x-member rust issue on 04-06 Tundras as well – is your dealership offering to replace the rear cross member free of charge? If not, then you’ve got something to talk about with NHTSA.
Also, solving this problem this will begin and end with the regional Toyota rep. Your local dealership service manager needs to get on the phone and get an exception made for you. In the meantime, feel free to send me photos of your truck (including rust) and I’ll write a post about a 2004 Tundra with frame rust that Toyota won’t fix. That might get something moving…
Jason: Per usual, that’s a great suggestion on a write up on a 2004+ Tundra that isn’t included in the frame replacement program but is experiencing said problems. I knew there was a reson I liked you. Good luck with the write up, can’t wait to read it.
I own a 2000 SR5. Filed my complaint with Toyota in Mid April 2010. Case manager said that the dealership would contact me for frame replacement…….ect ect ect. I have skimmed through all these comments. I have yet to find an owner that has had a frame replaced. Has anyone had the work done yet? Has anyone had offers to buy-back simular to tacoma program? Personally, I would buy a new tundra in a heart beat if they would give special incentives. Heck, I think at this point I would settle for retail price buy back…….Does anyone agree?
Thanks
The last post by Jason F is a great one. Who has had a frame replaced? My 2000 Tundra has been sitting in a field for almost two months ago. I was told one month maximum. I am on my second rental vehicle (Corrolla and now a nice Camary) My case manager told me there has been people without their trucks since last November and still waiting for frames. I agree with buy backs, incentives. I would drive another Tundra. The tough part is I just miss having my truck. Really sucks on garbage day when I have to load the Camary with all of my recycleables and garbage to haul to the dump. Man I miss my truck.
I agree, I would welcome a buy back, even if it stated that you had to buy another Toyota! I would buy another in a minute. I have been without my truck for about 2 months and am driving a loaner Tacoma! Problem is it won’t tow my new 24 ft. camper which has set at home all summer now! I contacted them (the dealer)the other day and they said 2 mo. to 1 yr. before I will see my truck! I’m not excited about it as I continue to make payments on my camper!!!!!
Was at the dealership this week. They have started frame replacements there. Told I would be called in a few weeks. Said it was taking them 2 – 3 days to do one. They had 2 in progress now, I saw the truck beds outside the rear door when I left and 2 more trucks in line ready to be done. I assume these were trucks being done that was deemed not safe to drive. Let them practice on a few before they get to mine.
I hear ya Steve!!! We also bought a brand new 31′ ultra light with 2 slides…..Had it custom made for a small 1/2 ton truck to tow it. That is why I am so upset! We cut corners on our RV for my tundra to tow it…..Now making payments all summer as it sit in the driveway!!!!! Has anyone asked their case manager about buy-back instead of replacement?
Justin – Thanks!
Jason F – I’ve spoken to a half a dozen Tundra owners with new frames. It’s slow going, but they are being replaced.
Andy – That does suck. Sounds like a picture opportunity, however.
Steve – Two months to a year?! That’s unbelievable (not that I’m doubting you of course – I’m just amazed that a dealer would say such a thing). How did they come up with that number?
So many times, I find that DEALERS are the problem.
Brought my ‘00 Tundra into the dealer for a frame inspection in Jan ‘10. After being the on lift for 5 minutes, the service manager informed me that the frame was totally perforated. Drove a rental car for over 5 months . . . not a bad thing up hear in NH considering the condition of the roads in the spring (Suggestion: never buy a used rental car from NH). The dealer started frame replacement 2 weeks ago and recommended over $3.5k of additional repairs. Some expenses (timing belt, water pump, tires, brakes, etc.) were routine that I put off for the past year hoping for a Taco buy-back program. Many of expenses (exh manifold, e-brake, fuel tank, new bumper, etc.) appear related to rust or frame replacement. Not wanting to sink that kind of money into this truck, I sold the vehicle to one of the techs in the shop for $1.5k . . . and happy to get it. So basically, a truck I spent over $26k was basically worthless to me after 10 years and 140k miles.
I’ve driven Toyotas for the last 20 years but this is likely my last. This is not because I think Toyota builds any better/worse vehicles than other manufacturers but I don’t want to associate with a company makes such poor business decisions. They’re willing to step up “do the right thing” by sinking ~$16k ($11k frame + $5k rental) into a vehicle that is blue booked at $5-6k tops? Say what you will about Toyota’s reasoning — corporate $$ shuffling, dealership service contracts, fraudulent claims — I don’t care. I have no desire to deal with idiot people anymore than idiot companies.
Good luck to all.
Gerry – I completely understand your perspective, and like you I too think a cash offer would have made a lot more sense for all involved. However, I must point out that more than one Tundra owner has berated me for having that opinion. Some people don’t want to have to buy a new truck.
I think we can all agree that it’s incredibly unfortunate Toyota didn’t build these trucks correctly in the first place. The way they handled this issue was piss-poor too – months go by with no official communication, then a very limited program to replace the rear cross-member, and then finally a warranty program…and the warranty program appears to be going very slowly by all accounts.
Jason, my dealer said that it would be at least 2 months and possibly up to 1 yr., but we won’t talk about that they said. They had my truck in their orriginally to check the rear cross member and I told them it was ok, but thee rest of the frame was rotted. They said they could only look at the rear cross member area and the rest didn’t matter. They didn’t care that I was driving something that wasn’t even safe to be on the road! I got no satisfaction until I went to a Regional Rep!
Our case manager told us this week that if anything breaks during the frame being replaced that WE had to pay for it!!!
Jason,,, now doesnt that make you feel all warm and fuzzy,, Toyota invites you to a recall and then tells you its gonna cost you,, did they give you an estimate or are they gonna stick it to you at the end,,,,,they told me an average of 3 thousand dollars,,, NICE,,,, REALLY NICE.
TOYOTA is sucking more and more every day,,, just ask the opinion of your neighbors or co workers,,(non TUNDRA owners),,, I HOPE YOU ARE LISTENING TOYOTA
I have posted quite a few times on here and just wondering if anyone is in the same boat. No matter what I am dumping my Tundra. It is a 2000 and has about 120,000. When I brought it in I asked them to check some other things and sure enough I was told the “another things” would be 4,500. I told my the service manager don’t put a dime into the vehicle even during the frame replacement. He agreed. However they still wanted to replace the frame. THis is all after a new manifold, (cracked twice since I have owned it) timing belt, plugs, theromostate, water pump I had done last year. I also have already replace the brake lines in 2008 which my case manager said I may be able to get reimbursement for. I faxed them all of my bills.
So I am just waiting for them to fix the frame so I can a better trade in. Does this even make sense is my question. My truck is sitting in a field for two months just to be sold. Does anyone know if it makes a difference to have that frame replace on a dealer trade in. I could be in a new Chevy, Ford, or Dodge tomorrow. However, my thought it is I wait this out Toyota will break down and start offering buy back or incentives. Hmmmm what to do??????
Personally, Toyota making the owner pay for parts that break during service doesn’t sound right, but it’s very common in the industry. Just think about it. How much is this total frame or simply the crossmember recall costing Toyota? Rather than do the right thing by the consumer, they will play by the letter of the law and recall, only replacing those components specified in the recall. I venture to guess making consumers pay for the non-covered parts that break will save Toyota millions, if not potentially billions when you include parts, labor and all the paperwork hours that will need to be covered.
Now this isn’t surprising, other manufacturers do similar type of stuff to save them a buck. Example that I’ve heard, but haven’t experienced myself on my 2006. This is something Ford is well aware of, but since it is not a safety issue, they aren’t required to file a recall, just a TSB. 04-07 F150 5.4L owners have a problem with the poorly designed 2-piece spark plugs snapping during replacement due to carbon buildup on the plug. Of course one piece removes easily, while the other piece gets stuck in the head. Even though Ford and dealers know this is an issue, if a plug breaks, they make the owner pay. It used to require the removal of the head to extract the plug and sometimes replacement of the head was needed. This would push a typical $350 plug change into a $1000-$1500 service to remove the head, not including any other service you may have completed at the same time. Now that Ford has a special tool and TSB procedures, if a plug snaps, then the owner typically has to pay the extra couple hours labor that the TSB procedures require to remove the stuck piece. Of course this depends on the dealer many times whether they charge you the additional labor hours. I’ve already discussed with my dealer that I will not pay over and above the $350 amount for the plug change and received a letter in writing from the Service Dept. Manager that whether a plug breaks or not, they will honor the $350 price. Of course 08+ F150s received a 1-piece design and do not suffer from this issue.
Picked up my truck on 7/2/10, total cost $13,292.14. I had a complete frame replacement. The dealer is replacing the entire frame on all trucks and is stating that now the value of the trucks has increased. I hope so.
As I’ve said before, the issue is as much the dealers as it is Toyota. If the frame replacement is done correctly, no parts should break. If a part does break, and if this break was a direct result of a warranty repair, Toyota *must* pay for that part. It’s not a warranty if the repair costs you money. If you raise a stink with your dealer, your state’s attorney general, Toyota customer service, your state’s dealer licensing board, etc., you will eventually get someone with some common sense to do the right thing.
The bottom line – it’s not a warranty if you have an obligatory out-of-pocket cost. If the dealer says you have to pay for parts that are broken during the course of performing this repair, I would advise you to report that dealership to your state authorities.
Jeff: I’m curious how much the value may have increased. My thoughts are as follow. Yes, the value of any vehicle, Toyota or not that has gone through a restoration type process and had significant rust removed should increase in value. But the other side also makes me think, how will companies like KBB, NADA and Carfax as examples review these vehicles.
Of course KBB/NADA will be giving a base trade-in and resale value; they won’t know which vehicles actually had the service completed. So will they up their values, or keep them low due to these unknowns. So Toyota may say the value has increased, but I’d wait to see what the market for the truck actually comes out to be.
And are these items reported to Carfax (I assume) like other recalls and accidents are? If so, how will Carfax classify these vehicles that have had the service completed? A vehicle in an accident that has had the frame replaced of course gets dinged. So will Carfax ding the Tundra, or provide a warning on trucks that have or have not had the service completed yet?
How will the market react to Tundra’s that didn’t need the frame replaced? Will they be valued higher/lower than those trucks that actually had their frames replaced? We’re in the great unknown period right now. So I wouldn’t totally take the dealers word that the value will increase. It may go up, but how much are we speaking of? $1500 or $5000? Only time will truly tell.
Best part about this is, these trucks will now be safe to drive!
Justin – I doubt that a frame replacement ever shows up on a CarFax or autocheck report. I think that they should, but technically it’s strictly a “warranty repair” so it flies under Carfax’s radar.
As far as the market reaction, I know the answer: all the rusted Tundras are being trucked out West where consumers aren’t conditioned to check for rust. These rusted Tundras are just as valuable today as they were before this frame warranty issue came to light, which is more a commentary on the typical consumer and typical car dealer than anything else.
I just recieved verbal notification that my 2000 Tundra will be on the rack for tear-down this week and I will be notified if there will be any additional cost associated with the {frame} swap. Since this has been a constant issue of conversation on this site I will let everyone know what, if any, extra cost is incurred with the repair of my truck. Hopefully the results of my situation will help someone make a knowledgable choice as to what to do with their Tundra.
FRAME HAD TO BE CUT UP TO REMOVE
We just got our 2000 Tundra back after the frame replacement. It took 3 months — most of that waiting for the new frame. We were told it cost $11500 to fix (including the $$ for the rental). The dealer did try to make us pay for a sensor that was “bad”. The sensor light was not on when we drove it in. Obviously, we told them that (and of course they check those things when you drop it off and made no note of a sensor issue). I do recommend everyone test drive their truck before accepting it though. Make sure it’s been aligned properly too.
Oh, I should make it clear… we didn’t pay anything for the repairs. Truck seems good. Frame doesn’t creak anymore.
Dave – Thank you – it would be great to hear your report.
JB – Excellent! Glad to hear that you didn’t have any out of pocket.
I have a tacoma and they refused to offer a buy back. My only option is a frame replace. Riddled with rust perf. and now I’m face with having my truck reduced and rebuilt! Not safe of comforting. Do I have any legal options to get a buy bag for a 2001?
Barb – Not that I’m aware of.
Well it’s finally over Toyota has won.In April of 09 I went to get an inspection sticker, I was denied. My frame was so rusted out it caved in on one side while on the lift.The mechanic said it was unsafe to drive.I contacted toyota right away and was told there were no recall on that issue at this time .So I called NHTSA they told me that althought there are many complaints on this issus no investigation is going on at this time. November 26th.toyota says a recall has been put in place for rusted frames and the bar that holds the spare tire.Jan 5th Ira toyota out of Tewksbury Mass. says bring the truck in for inspection.They tell me my 2000 tundra has so much rust the frame is cracked now.So they gave me a rental and was on my way.June 6th. Ira calls and says my frame is in BUT your truck has been here for so long, to fix it will be 7398.59 because hood release secondary latch binding,third brake bulb,driver bulb inop,heater controlls seized in dash,transmission cooler linesseized,wiper blades,leaf springs,rear shocks,front brake callipers seized,pins and hoses seized,throttle body binding seized due to rat infestation,lower controlarms seized and the parking brake pivots as well as the front and back cables seized.I immediately called toyota headquarters and was told by Kevin Spillane [head of the tundra frame campaign]that they will not cover anything except the frame and im also responsible if they have to fix parts to get the frame on.I’VE TRIED EVERYONE FOR HELP!
mine has been @ dealer since feb 10/has new frame under trk says it will need new control arms/fuel brk lines/shocks etc etc etc.waiting for dealer to get final reply from toyota about what they will cover.sitting outside dealer shop, they covered up because too many customers asking about it.
deleted – I can see Toyota paying for rusted control arms, but brake lines and shocks are wear items. Those aren’t going to be covered.
As stated in previous post, I picked up my 2000 Tundra on 7/2/10, and Toyota covered the cost of the control arms, brake lines and adjusted the brakes as well as resurfaced the front brake rotors.
Also according to the invoice, they replaced a number of gaskets, rings on the drive shaft, converter retainer, shackle kit?, pin cotter (2), brake fluid, brake tube kit 1 and numerous other items.
Jeff – I stand corrected.
I brought my 2000 tundra in today for the replacement of the first recall cross-member frames. I received a call from the service dept. later today to tell me when inspected and in the process of the replacement they found holes right through my frame and would need to be replaced. I was told to come in and p/u a rental and the whole cost of the work would be covered by Toyota. My Trundra is in great shape otherwise but it does have 195000 miles on it. Still runs great but I can’t believe they are putting that kind of money into my truck, dont get me wrong I think its right that they stand behind their product but maybe a choice to consumers might have been appropriate ie; maybe 10-12k off a new vehicle which I would have been happy to receive. Still love my truck and will be happy to get it repaired…Thank’s Toyota
[...] [...]
Just heard of this from a friend that has a 2000 tundra with 100K miles in the shop since april waiting for a frame to be delivered. Dealer gave him a new RAV4 for loaner which he has put 6K miles on and counting. Does this make any sense? I have 2003 tundra with 130K miles going in shop next week to be inspected. Just got finished fighting with dealer because they won’t honor the free oil change at 5000 miles on wifes 2011 Sienna under the 2 year free maintenance plan because they now say new Sienna has synthetic oil and change needed every 10K miles. That’s not what the maintenane schedule says. This should be fun
JK – That’s correct – the 2011 Sienna now uses fully synthetic 0W20 and has a 10k mile interval. Owners are supposed to get a new maintenance schedule and a letter in the mail explaining the change. There are a couple of notes:
1. The Sienna came with that oil from the factory, so it’s not as if they’re switching things around mechanically.
2. I’m not a fan of the idea, but it’s a good way to reduce maintenance costs and improve fuel economy. According to Toyota, it has no impact on wear and tear.
Toyota is also going with a 10k mile interval on the new 4.6L Tundra too – http://www.tundraheadquarters......hetic-oil/
As for the logic of replacing frames instead of writing checks? You’ve got me.
Well, I’ve been in touch with NHTSA and they are not very happy with toyota at all. In fact my case manager has had several calls about this situation and is trying to get NHTSA to reopen this investigation asap. I also talked with channel 5 and spoke with Susan Wornick, she cannot believe its come to this. Channel 5 was responsible for breaking this news last year. There will also be a story in the Eagle Tribune, as I spoke to this reporter he too could not believe toyota could do this because of there reputation on customer satisfaction,Ha Ha. I’ve started a media blitz and I hope everybody dealing with situation does the same. Don’t give up !
I had my new tires rotated yesterday on my 2007 tundra.While truck was on lift i decided to look under it and I noticed alot of rust on rear axle.The only thing I knew was about the older tacomas having frame rust.When I got home I googled tundra frame rust.What I found was crazy.Today I crawled under my truck for a better look and what I found really pissed me off.Not only did I have rear axle rust but rust was everywhere.Cross member behind spare tire was in bad shape.Everything holding leaf springs looked like it was 30 yrs old.Almost every piece of frame where connected was in really bad shape.every bolt has so much rust I dont thiink you could get them out if you wanted to.Bumpers are rusting all lug nuts are rusted.I read all of these comments about trucks being from bad winter states.I live in southwestern va.Not known for its harsh winters.i feel for you guys with these 2001 and older models than my truck.Know what really sucks? My trucks only 3 yrs old.I dont even have it half paid for yet.This frame wont last until its paid for.Think anyones gonna want it?My wife has 07 camry it uses up to 2 quarts of oil per 3000 mile oil change and has been doing this sense about 35000.Toyota says this is normal.We have owned 7 toyotas and never had this problem before and lets not even talk about her sucky brakes that sound like there falling out from underneath the car every time you take off in it.Anybody ever heard of rear brakes wearing out way before front ones?Hers did.We have always stuck by toyota products because they were so much better than the other ones and had way more trade in value.I have always been to the good on my tundra tradeins.Try that with a 3 yr old chevy and you better have alot of extra cash to get back even with payoff.But all that has changed now.I love my toyota.No other truck even compares and i never seen myself in any other type of vehicle.Heres what im gonna do im gonna give toyota one chance to do the right thing. buy my truck back at suggested retail value not put a new frame on it.Rust is like cancer any thing it touches gets infected.Its not just frame on my truck its almost everything connected to it.Even muffler is shot after only 3 yrs.If they cheated on all of these parts what else did they cheat on.Its starting to show on my wifes car.There is to many words being said instead of action being taken.Heres what we need to do.Give them one chance to do the right thing and mean now not months or yrs later and if they dont;find out who at the dealership made the decision and jerk him up by the shirt collar and tell him your gonna stick your size 13 shoe so far up his -ss he will taste rubber.I dont know to many people that would want to work at that dealership any more if everybody would stick up for theirselves and do it instead of always depending on someone else to do it for us and not getting any results.If were gonna really get toyotas attention were gonna have to do it ourselves.
my ‘00 has been at the dealer since the end of April. they graciously gave me my choice of rental through Enterprise – so I drove a Chevy Tahoe for a while, then I moved into a Ford F150 (piece of crap BTW), then out of the blue the service manager calls me and asks if I want to drop my F150 off at Enterprise and drive one of their new Tundras…. I accept the offer and within 3 hours i am driving a brand spanking new (6 miles on it) 2010 Tundra access cab. I have since put over 1000 miles on it, trashed the bed (no bedliner) and my kids have spilled OJ and chocolate in it.. I wonder what its worth now? My truck still sits in the lot, but I see that they just got the frames in and they are stacked up nect to the tacoma frames. I suspect I will have the new Tundra for at least another month. Its going to be hard to give it up! Maybe thats the point? Anyhow I still dont get it. a $10K frame replacement, $3800+/- for a rental, and the at least $5K value loss in the new truck I am ruining, – I would have rather had the $20K and bought a new one… Oh well…Maybe AIG is footing the bill? who knows..
Wilbur – On July 12th. I called Toyota’s Customer Assistance and spoke to Shamika. I told her everything I’ve been going through and suddenly she put me on hold. She came back and apologized, saying: Would you be interested in the Buy-Back program. I told her of course that’s what they should have done from the beginning. I thought to my self why did this take so long, this could have been settled months ago. Shamika told me that she would pass this information on to my case manager Kevin Spillane who supposedly is in charge of the Tundra frame campaign. I thanked Shamika and told her I can’t beleive I got further with her on 1 day then I did with my case manager in over a year. This call was made around 9:am. BAMB! I recieved a call that night and was told by Chuck Rocha that I needed to return my rental within 2 days and if I was not going to pay the 7300.00 to get the frame on and get the truck running again I had 1 week to get it off there lot. Not only do I have a letter from a mechanic stating all I needed was an 02-sensor for my inspection sticker before the frame started falling apart but a tow truck driver started my truck and drove it to his flat-bed where he put it on. This truck sat on Ira’s lot between Jan.5th and July 14th. waiting for the frames to even come in. Im sorry Wilbur but I’m not dealing with people like Mike Schivone or Chuck Rocha from Ira Toyota or as I like to call them the Scarecrow and the Tin-Man. I’ve been advised to hit them with everyting from Face-book,Twitter,Media and Signs out in front of there dealership. Good luck and be carefull where you put your foot. It’s not worth it!
Mike – I have to question some of what you’re saying. First of all, you listed off a lot of problems in your comment from July 19th, and most of the problems shouldn’t be covered by Toyota. Bulbs, seized heater controls, damage caused by rats, a blocked transmission cooler line…NONE of that should be covered by warranty.
If your issue is that Toyota won’t give you a new frame, that’s one thing. If your issue is that you expect Toyota to fix everything that’s wrong with your truck regardless of the cause, that’s something else.
Am I missing something? Are you seriously upset with Toyota for not warrantying your rat infestation problem?
Chris – I agree – the economics of this program don’t make sense. Still, as I have said many times before, there are some people who refuse to accept cash payment for their trucks. I think Toyota decided it was all or nothing, and the folks that refused to accept a buyout probably ruined it for everyone. Toyota probably could have done better to just offer 150% of KBB and be done with it.
Well, here is the end result of my experience with my 2000 Tundra with 210,000 miles on it. After the Scranton/Scion dealer took it to get the frame in April and giving me a 2010 Tundra to hold me over the work has been completed. I picked it up today after a crawling all over it to check their work. So far the only thing I can find wrong is it is dirtier than when I gave it to them. They were EXTREMELY professional and in tune with my needs and I can’t say anything negative. I’m happy to have my truck back. It cost me $1500.00 but that’s only because I wanted some things fixed while they had it apart. They hung my parts for free since they had to disassemble it anyway. My truck now has $11,500.00 in new parts and its just like when I bought it sooooo many years ago.
So, if you like what you drive than my advice to all is fix your Tundra and drive it for another 10 years, than if it happens again junk it a by a 2020 Tundra. At least for me this has been a journey worth taking and I’m absolutely satisfied with MY truck and Toyota!
Dave – That’s cool man. I’m glad to read about a happy person in this post.
Jason- Go crawl back under your rock, and take off your new fitted toyoya hat. Your clueless in so many ways. Read the facts. When Ira toyota tells you, If I were you I would sue toyota you have a good case. I give two shits about that stupid warranty. My truck was in great shape until the frame gave way and then sat for months waiting for a decision. When a truck is sitting in the dealership lot that long your telling me I’m responsible. Even when I halled the truck away in the back of it were 5 quarts of empty oil containers,coffee cups, soda bottles and parts that came off a different truck. So I’m dealing with a bunch of buttheads.
well frame installed and back, got new control arms, and brake lines, also new bolts and brackets. no new rear leaf springs.
Mike — they are replacing control arms if the cam bolts will not come out due to rust.
got to watch all the work done every day and made sure all was done correctly..
other then the new bushings squeaking over bumps i’m happy
Hey Mike,, Lets hear more aboout the buy back program that toyota customer assistance offered you,,, it is what they should be doing anyway,, this whole program is so set up for them to make money and to tell the Feds they are trying to make things right,,, but my god,,, the logic involved…. Im really really really curious about the buy back,,,is the any more info out there
Mike – You’re saying that all the problems you listed off happened on the dealer’s lot during the 5 months it spent?
Forgive me if I’ve assumed incorrectly, but I think anyone could understand why I would question someone who is upset about Toyota not warrantying a rat infestation.
Also, I’d love to hear about the buy out you’ve been offered.
Todd – Good to hear and good tip on the bolts – thanks.
Don – Me too. As far as I know this is off the table, but it wouldn’t surprise me if some very vocal people were being offered checks.
Jason- That’s why I’m so mad, how can things have changed so fast after being offered the but-back.And that’s why NHTSA is so mad. I don’t know what to tell you,my wife and I were excited that it seemed Toyota was finally doing the right thing. And it goes even beyond that,I lost my job over this. I use to drive 36 miles just to get to work, I made good money and now zero. The girl I spoke with kept telling me, we at Toyota are very sorry it’s come to this and I’m only doing my job by offering you a buy-back. Where did I go wrong? Ira said: That she made a mistake she should not have offered you this program because there’s no program in place. My truck was book valued at 7000.00 dollars when this happened, because I was told by Toyota to get my truck off there lot I did. 93,000 miles,no dent’s,great running truck, nothing wrong except 02 sensor and the frame. Jason, I apologize for coming off so mad. But I’ve had enough, 15 months of fighting this has taken it’s toll. I just sold my truck for 500.00 dollars to the tow truck company. F’N incredible. I did all that I could do. The goverment failed me Toyota failed me and now I feel like I’ve failed my family.
Mike – That sucks.
MY 2006 TUNDRA D-CAB has lots of frame rust, the dealer told me “thats normal”….. I’d like a refund on this truck, I wont buy another one until they start useing good steel.
Tom: That’s horrible. Not sure where you reside since weather seems to impact this issue greatly, but I’m living in CO and have no rust to speak of on my 2006 F150.
Tom – Did the dealer say it was surface rust? Surface rust is perfectly normal, and I’ve seen some pics of 2nd-gen Tundra frames with a healthy dose of surface rust…but no structural problems.
You might try taking your 06′ to a body shop for a second opinion. If they say it’s normal, then you’ll know the Toyota dealer isn’t lying. Otherwise, you’ve got something to take to Toyota.
I took my tundra to University Motors in Morgantown WV. They ordered the frame which took about 3 weeks. Then scheduled a rental car and drop off time. I was told it would take about 2 weeks to complete, but it actually took a little over a month. I opted to have the timing belt and shocks and emergency brake cable replaced and a fuel filter. So in total my bill was just a little over 1,000 dollars. Again I choose this. When I got my truck back It was honestly like have a new truck, no squeaks or rattle and tight as can be around turns. I originally hoped for a buy back too, but I must say this was the best deal for me all ways around. My truck has 116K so I should be good for another 100K easy.
Mike – Awesome – great to hear you’re happy.
picked mine up yesterday,been in a rental since march,truck handle good.suspension feels tight/had new shocks maint.done while it was there still under 1000.000 total
Deleted – Cool – another satisfied customer! If only Toyota could have taken responsibility sooner…
“TOM says:
August 10, 2010 at 7:51 am
MY 2006 TUNDRA D-CAB has lots of frame rust, the dealer told me “thats normal”….. I’d like a refund on this truck, I wont buy another one until they start useing good steel.
”
normal for metal to rust, according to toyota. But its usually typical when something is made from light gauge steel. Or steel that doesn’t have much additives(other elements) when they made it in the foundry.
Take a screw driver and scrape the rust, if you don’t get a hard surface, take it back to them.
i would wire brush the rust off, buy some rustoleum (home depot/menards) and paint the frame with the stuff. That way it will last longer than 5 years.
rustoleum sells a primer that will coat over rust, and buy some black rustoleum and go over it.
I picked up my 2000 tundra last week after 3 months of driving a rental truck. The only charge that they would not cover was the exhaust system that was in need of replacing anyway. They insalled a new stainless steel cat-back exhaust for 369.00. I brought the truck back the day after I got it back because the whole truck would shake at a coast or when stopping. They turned the front rotors, adjusted the rear brakes and balanced the tires. It is much better know but there is still a vibration on the highway the dealer says is due to flat spots on the tires from sitting so long??? I am going to drive it a little while and see if it gets any better.
Mine is at the dealership now, it takes approx. two weeks for them to replace the frame. I was first told a few days but now its turned into two weeks. I’m just happy its getting done
charlie – the flat spots on the tires would explain it, and that definitely seems possible. I’m very glad to hear they didn’t charge you for any extraneous parts (aside from the new exhaust at least).
TO all – This is more proof that dealers aren’t charging “thousands” to do this repair as some others have said. If your dealer trots this line of BS out, find another place to get your frame repaired.
jen – It’s a big job, and a lot of shops are (understandably) a little intimidated. I think it’s a good thing that they take their time on a repair like this.
Parts availability is also an issue.
[...] has to state about the sludge. She puts it in a post where the thread is about the rusty frames. Toyota Launches Tundra Frame Replacement Program | Tundra Headquarters __________________ MIDNIGHT RIDER THE NEW HEARTBEAT OF AMERICA AFTER GAS PEDAL [...]
I went to a dealership for a frame inspection and they confirmed a frame replacement, they told me it would be about 8 weeks for the frame to come in, which it did. I got a rental truck and its been about 3 weeks. the dealership told me they would do an inspection to see if I would need any new parts that they either couldn’t get off and had to cut off and/or needed replacement. This seems like it could get expensive. The truck has 54000 miles no body rust and has been garaged since new(out of the elements). My question is how hard does any dealership try to salvage parts when replacing the frame? Seems to easy to use new!
Just got my truck back. I dropped it off 2-18-10 and got it back 8-23-10. The frame was replaced along with lines and wires and some extra small parts. Toyota supplied me with a 2010 Sienna for the whole time. While it was there being worked on, I had them replace the steering rack, mount new tires and change a tie rod. The total for me was less than $800 for the extras that I added. Toyota is a great company that stood by me and their product. I will always remember this and appreciate all that they did.
Thanks Scranton Toyota.
Steve – Mainly, dealers use the old parts because Toyota won’t pay for new ones…unless the only way to complete the warranty repair is to damage perfectly good parts, in which case Toyota will warranty replacement.
John – Glad to hear it – your positive experience makes for quite a few happy people posting here.
Today I saw my 2001 Tundra Limited up in the Toyota shop with the bed off. There were piles of rust chips, I mean piles, all under the truck. They told me they would just replace the spare tire section. I took lots of pictures. I am so bummed. The frame looked awful. It even looked tweaked and bent. Is this why I’m having alignment problems. I would love to post pictures of it at the Toyota dealer looking so bad with pieces falling off the frame. Can I post pictures here?
Finally got my truck back today – after 3 months. The old frame had holes the size of my head in the top of it in places that I couldnt see before – its amazing it didnt fall apart..
total cost to my dealer (paid by Toyota and Dana and whoever else) was $13890 Total cost to me Zero! I had the option of replacing lots of parts while it was dismantled but I decided against it. the truck went on the lift on Monday was done by wednesday then to the recon shop for a detailing – N/C then they called me and gave me a few days to return the 2010 Tundra I was driving. Man what a letdown to drive my old POS truck! that new Tundra is really nice compared to my 140K mile 2000 TRD access cab – my truck is like driving a VW bus compared to the new trucks.. I WILL buy another Toyota, this was a positive experience, however I was fighting for them to do something for 2 years.
good luck to the rest of you.
and thank you to Courtesy Toyota in Montpelier VT!
Perry: Create yourself an account at http://www.photobucket.com, post the pics there and post the picture link/url into the comments here.
Perry – Yes – email them to me: admin@tundraheadquarters.com and I’ll write a post about them for you.
Chris – Great to hear.
I brought my 2000 Tundra SR5 in for the inspection, which it failed. Truck is sitting at the dealer still while I have a ‘10 Santa Fe, which I love by the way. I stopped at the dealer today to talk to the service dept. about what the game plan is. I asked about a possible buy back, obviously I was shot down. But figured it was worth a try. They said about 8 weeks to finish. My truck has 110K on it, I have been trying to sell it as I have twins on the way and need more room. Just wish Toyota would do the same buy back as the Tacomas a few years ago? But that works for me, doesn’t mean it does for the rest of you. Will the recall work increase my trade in value at all?
I brought my 2000 Tundra to the dealer on 3/31/10 and was sent home with a rental vehicle. I received my Tundra back today 8/26/10. The frame was replaced along with any parts needed to complete the work. I signed one paper and left the dealership. I was charged nothing for the work. I have to say that Toyota stands behind their product. I was treated extremely well throughout the process and was kept informed at all times. I would like to give a big Thank You to the Grappone Dealer in Bow, NH. They have changed many frames (A lot of old frames in the pile) and seem to have quite a few to finish. Good Luck to everyone looking to complete the process, I hope you have a good experience also.
Steve – It won’t increase value, but it will preserve market value.
Jerry – Awesome. This is fantastic news that stories like yours keep coming in.
I have posted previously and would also like to thank Balise Toyota in West Springfield MA for their help and support during the frame replacement on my 2000 Tundra.
Thursday I went to the Balise, because my gas cap cover on my Tundra rotted off. I asked the Service Manager who helped me on frame issue, if Toyota would pick up the tab for replacement (#28.04 cover – $35.00 labor = $63.04). He got back to me and Toyota said no. Toyota spent over $13,000 to fix my truck but would not go for $63.04. I still think Toyota is great for taking responsibility for the frame issue.
Anybody else have this problem with the gas cap cover.
Jeff – Weird – never heard of that one before. Anyone else?
An update on my 2000 Tundra after a little over a week of driving it with the new frame. I had a small gas leak at the fuel filter and my “A/T oil temperature” light came on. I returned to the dealer where a new gas filter and new A/T oil temperature unit was installed at NO Charge to me. I hate to brag, knowing all the trouble that some owners are having, but Grappone Toyota has really stepped up to the plate and taken care of my Tundra. The Service Manager has been great to work with. I have no other problems with the frame installation to date.
Jerry – I don’t think of it as bragging at all – I think it’s a great thing that you’re showing other Tundra owners what they can expect from their dealership if/when they have this recall work done. I’m glad it’s gone so well for you.